Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Everyone needs a stompbox.
User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by JVG » Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:08 pm

I’m a big fan of good old ‘amplitude’ tremolo, or whatever you want to call it. :)

Harmonic tremolo, however, i just don’t get. It sounds ok to my ears, but that’s about it. The product ads and demo videos bang on about the pseudo-univibe sounds it creates. I’ve tried a couple, and it does sound vaguely vibe-ish, but if i want that sound i’ll use an actual univibe style pedal.

Maybe fans of harmonic trem can let me know what i’m missing out on?

User avatar
DeathJag
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2297
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by DeathJag » Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:04 pm

I'd say because it's pretty unique compared to all other trems? I like it way more than the other kinds, but I do use the chop chop kind too. When you say you don't see the big deal - are you hearing it with a clean tone with few or no effects? I have found that if it is anywhere but the last effect, it loses its luster and kinda sounds weak.

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7344
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:45 pm

It’s not that I dislike it, but I prefer tremolo and phaser as distinct sounds.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by Embenny » Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm

The fuss is because it sounds unique. It's not a univibe and it's not a phaser.

I encountered it on a brownface amp about 7 years ago, and fell in love. Forgot about it for a while but just discovered a couple weeks ago that my AxeFX has it built in.

When set slow, it adds a lovely complexity to the tone that you just don't get from any other effect. I'm not a fan of it when it's set too fast. The differences from a univibe become less distinct.

It's the type of effect that, when used correctly, isn't that noticeable until you turn it off. I don't mean correctly in the sense of it being the only right way to use it, I just mean that you can successfully do that with it.

There's no way to make a univibe move slowly and subtly enough to do that. I like univibe as well, but that's the big difference with harmonic tremolo in my experience.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
MayTheFuzzBeWithYou
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2407
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:28 am
Location: Linz, Austria

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:59 pm

Hmmmm. My Surfy Trem (kit) has the option to be switched to Harmonic Tremolo - and I thought it could be desirable because of the fact that the old Brownface/Blonde-Oxblood Showman and Bandmaster amps had it (among some others) - and like the Presence knob this would be some kind of holy grail of Surf Tone. Turns out I prefer the Blackface/Silverface Trem tone. Still: good to have it - as some songs may need THAT sound in the future.

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by JVG » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:45 am

DeathJag wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:04 pm
…When you say you don't see the big deal - are you hearing it with a clean tone with few or no effects? I have found that if it is anywhere but the last effect, it loses its luster and kinda sounds weak.
Yeah, tried it clean, and at the end of the chain.

Don’t get me wrong - i don’t dislike it, but it generally just leaves me with that ‘meh’ feeling.

Any particular pedal you like for harmonic?

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by JVG » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:50 am

mbene085 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm
The fuss is because it sounds unique. It's not a univibe and it's not a phaser.
Hmm maybe there’s the issue - i may have been too affected by the demos talking about the pseudo vibe tones, so i’m unintentionally comparing it to a univibe (an effect i absolutely love) instead of letting it be its own thing.

Food for thought, thanks.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by Embenny » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:28 am

JVG wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:50 am
Hmm maybe there’s the issue - i may have been too affected by the demos talking about the pseudo vibe tones, so i’m unintentionally comparing it to a univibe (an effect i absolutely love) instead of letting it be its own thing.

Food for thought, thanks.
Happy to help.

One fundamental difference is that a univibe uses a light bulb and an optical sensor to trigger the effect. That leads to the unique cadence to the waveform. It's kinda like a repeated "fwomp-fwomp-fwomp" that is asymmetrical in its rise and fall.

A harmonic tremolo can technically have any waveform you'd encounter in a regular tremolo - sine, triangle, square, etc. The sine wave type is of course the smoothest. Listen to the beginning of this demo and you'll hear a smooth harmonic tremolo with a slow rate. Definitely different from a univibe.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
DeathJag
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2297
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by DeathJag » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:08 am

MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:59 pm
Hmmmm. My Surfy Trem (kit) has the option to be switched to Harmonic Tremolo - and I thought it could be desirable because of the fact that the old Brownface/Blonde-Oxblood Showman and Bandmaster amps had it (among some others) - and like the Presence knob this would be some kind of holy grail of Surf Tone. Turns out I prefer the Blackface/Silverface Trem tone. Still: good to have it - as some songs may need THAT sound in the future.
I have heard nothing without tubes sounds correct, but that new SurfyTrem Deluxe comes pretty close! It's very similar but compared side by side it's a little "clinical." There's some darker strength with the tube version.

I completely agree with Dr. Mike that it doesn't really work when the rate is too fast.

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8804
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by JSett » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:29 am

DeathJag wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:08 am
MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:59 pm
Hmmmm. My Surfy Trem (kit) has the option to be switched to Harmonic Tremolo - and I thought it could be desirable because of the fact that the old Brownface/Blonde-Oxblood Showman and Bandmaster amps had it (among some others) - and like the Presence knob this would be some kind of holy grail of Surf Tone. Turns out I prefer the Blackface/Silverface Trem tone. Still: good to have it - as some songs may need THAT sound in the future.
I have heard nothing without tubes sounds correct, but that new SurfyTrem Deluxe comes pretty close! It's very similar but compared side by side it's a little "clinical." There's some darker strength with the tube version.

I completely agree with Dr. Mike that it doesn't really work when the rate is too fast.
The emulation of it on the Strymon Flint is very, very close.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by Embenny » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:40 am

DeathJag wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:08 am
I have heard nothing without tubes sounds correct, but that new SurfyTrem Deluxe comes pretty close! It's very similar but compared side by side it's a little "clinical." There's some darker strength with the tube version.
Honestly, many of the pedal demos I've found sound lackluster. Part of me wonders if that's because people are putting it in the wrong point in the signal chain - it really needs to go into the FX loop, which is equivalent to where it's placed in the brownface circuits.

The harmonic trem in my AxeFX III is perfection, however - not only does it nail the Fender brownface tone, it also has adjustable waveforms and crossover frequencies. It also models the non-linearities of the original circuit, which can introduce some distortion into the signal. I suspect that's an element missing from some pedals as well. From my experiments, it sounds like the crossover of the two filters is where it's easiest for a pedal to fail. Too narrow an overlap between them, and it loses that recognizable sound. Too wide and it stops sounding like the original harmonic tremolo and moves into a weird, more phaser-like tone.
Last edited by Embenny on Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5984
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:40 am

JVG wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:08 pm
I’m a big fan of good old ‘amplitude’ tremolo, or whatever you want to call it. :)

Harmonic tremolo, however, i just don’t get. It sounds ok to my ears, but that’s about it. The product ads and demo videos bang on about the pseudo-univibe sounds it creates. I’ve tried a couple, and it does sound vaguely vibe-ish, but if i want that sound i’ll use an actual univibe style pedal.

Maybe fans of harmonic trem can let me know what i’m missing out on?
If you don't like it, you're not missing out on anything.

But if you've never played a brown-Tolex Super, Concert or other amp that has the effect (and are relying only on demo videos and pedals that claim to copy it), I recommend reserving judgment until you've actually heard it.

User avatar
del
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1585
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:57 am
Location: rusted jack-knife

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by del » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:40 am

The “frequency modulation” setting on the Caroline Parabola is a delight! I think it sounds similar to harmonic term and is great for adding subtle volume modulation that doesn’t dominate the sound of your instrument.
The Kinks - The Fall – The Bad Seeds - Spacemen 3 - The Gories - Royal Trux
"The idea is to put a pick in one hand and a guitar in the other and with a tiny movement rule the world." - David Fair

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by Embenny » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:44 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:40 am
If you don't like it, you're not missing out on anything.

But if you've never played a brown-Tolex Super, Concert or other amp that has the effect (and are relying only on demo videos and pedals that claim to copy it), I recommend reserving judgment until you've actually heard it.
Totally true. I didn't "get" it until I happened across a '63 Bandmaster at my local shop. The amp had a few gremlins in it that kept me from taking it home, but the harmonic vibrato worked perfectly and was absolutely mesmerizing. That amp just plain made anything plugged into it sound better.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1401
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Harmonic Tremolo - why the fuss?

Post by JVG » Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:27 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:40 am
But if you've never played a brown-Tolex Super, Concert or other amp that has the effect (and are relying only on demo videos and pedals that claim to copy it), I recommend reserving judgment until you've actually heard it.
Sadly I haven’t, but definitely keen to.

Post Reply