Anyone else absolutely despise internal trimpots/ switches?

[NBarnes21]

I'll agree that it makes sense to have an internal trim pot if it's for a parameter that's not generally meant to be fucked with such as calibration or something. But something like dip switches on the King Of Tone- I'd personally rather have those as external switches to be able to quickly switch between modes based on the current situation/ need. When I ordered my Analogman mini chorus I added the external wet/dry knob as well as the depth toggle switch and find myself using those all the time when recording to dial in just the right vibe for that particular part.

[øøøøøøø]

I'll agree that it makes sense to have an internal trim pot if it's for a parameter that's not generally meant to be fucked with such as calibration or something. But something like dip switches on the King Of Tone- I'd personally rather have those as external switches to be able to quickly switch between modes based on the current situation/ need.

Perhaps even better would be if the designer made a decision about which sounded best!

In most aspects of creative work, preserving “options” is usually a false economy

In almost every case everyone forgets all but the one that happens to be active when work resumes. This means no decision was made—only deferred long enough for it to be forgotten that there was even a decision to make (which means random chance gets to dictate the default).

[panoramic]

The scenario:

-fine tune parameter exists

-shall we put it in a place where its impossible to adjust while playing or maintaining the same knob positions, for which it would be really essential to do for a FINE parameter. Also, lets use the least robust component imaginable.

......

so many pedals have this problem, I keep seeing stuff with bias in a slot like that. My fuzz bender (great pedal) has a bias pot and i can't think of a time I haven't messed that up when adjusting the treble. I love what it does and hate where it lives.

[NBarnes21]

I'll agree that it makes sense to have an internal trim pot if it's for a parameter that's not generally meant to be fucked with such as calibration or something. But something like dip switches on the King Of Tone- I'd personally rather have those as external switches to be able to quickly switch between modes based on the current situation/ need.

Perhaps even better would be if the designer made a decision about which sounded best!

In most aspects of creative work, preserving “options” is usually a false economy

In almost every case everyone forgets all but the one that happens to be active when work resumes. This means no decision was made—only deferred long enough for it to be forgotten that there was even a decision to make (which means random chance gets to dictate the default).

Totally hear you on the benefit of decisiveness and commitment in the creative process, in reference to the KOT example I more meant having quick options to deal with a certain scenario- maybe such as having to use an unfamiliar amp and finding a different KOT switch setting works much better for that after a quick cycle through

[DeathJag]

I hate em. I also HATE screw-on battery doors, even if it's just one big screw - screw that! Gimme a tab to pull or slide.

Except that a very nice wah pedal had been rendered completely unusable by someone having a blast with the myriad DIP switches and trimmers inside.

Seems to me that you just made the opposite case! If all the switches were on the outside, they wouldn't be obscure 10-row dip switch crap and 1/8" trim pots with no detends, so it would be easier to get em back to normal!

I have a Quaverato Harmonic Tremolo Pedal that has WAY too many important settings under the hood. I didn't love its sound at first, and everything I did sounded worse. Then I couldn't get it back and it's been sitting unused for about four years now. I'll sell it soon I guess.

I also agree that too many parameters are not good. It's a pedal, not a computer. It doesn't have to do everything. This shit is a symptom of both humans and technology - if it CAN do it, we should make it do it! Then people feel cheated when they can't change one little thing. That said, some pedals are supposed to have endless options, and it's good that those are popular with a certain demographic, but not for all demographics.

I also REALLY wish there were a way to just "lock" a pedal's knobs, instead I have the least elegant solution - gaffer's tape!

[sal paradise]

Urgh, 13 year old me hated screw on battery cases

[øøøøøøø]

I hate em. I also HATE screw-on battery doors, even if it's just one big screw - screw that! Gimme a tab to pull or slide.

Except that a very nice wah pedal had been rendered completely unusable by someone having a blast with the myriad DIP switches and trimmers inside.

Seems to me that you just made the opposite case! If all the switches were on the outside, they wouldn't be obscure 10-row dip switch crap and 1/8" trim pots with no detends, so it would be easier to get em back to normal!

But there would still have been enough “options” to have impeded creative flow in this case, IMO.

Whether it’s banking through endless menus using soft keys on a digital device, or cycling through mechanical switch and knob permutations on an analog one, too many options can be frustrating.

Sometimes a good user interface is a streamlined, elegant one that focuses the work. The hoarding of possibilities isn’t design, you know?

Wah pedals existed for half a century before anyone thought we needed more than one selectable “voice.”

Has better wah music been made since that development?

[marqueemoon]

Perhaps even better would be if the designer made a decision about which sounded best!

Amen to this.

One of the most confounding pedals I’ve tried was the Dr. Scientist Elements. There are some great sounds in it and there are some meh ones, but by putting nearly every meaningful parameter on a switch or a knob it’s all up to the end user.

I just want to step on a pedal and have it do thing and be able to adjust a few variables.

[øøøøøøø]

I just want to step on a pedal and have it do thing and be able to adjust a few variables.

Exactly this. And I like it best when any variables are intuitive to manipulate. If I’m not sure I understand what’s happening when I turn a knob, I can’t operate the device with intent—and at that point it’s just rolling dice and hoping for something cool.

Obviously, inviting chance into the process can lead to compelling work. But sources of randomness and chance are all around; they’re literally free! If every tool is an agent of chaos, then there can be no intent (and therefore no creative process at all).

Most of my favorite work stems from the creativity that accompanies a struggle against limitation, so I’ve got no issue with gear that’s limited in scope or function

[jorri]

The scenario:

-fine tune parameter exists

-shall we put it in a place where its impossible to adjust while playing or maintaining the same knob positions, for which it would be really essential to do for a FINE parameter. Also, lets use the least robust component imaginable.

......

I don't really agree, as qualified service personnel will have the right equipment and procedures to calibrate the device (it's usually not done by ear).

The biggest case against trimmers, in my view, is the fact that most people are unable to resist fucking with them.

So when you rent some device that you didn't even know had trimmers inside (or encounter it as part of a studio's collection or buy secondhand), it's very likely to be miscalibrated and need service right off the bat.

I had a very frustrating encounter with a Teese RMC wah pedal at a studio out here awhile back. The artist wanted a wah part. Studio, do you have a wah? Yes? Great!

Except that a very nice wah pedal had been rendered completely unusable by someone having a blast with the myriad DIP switches and trimmers inside.

We had no documentation, and after three people (two of whom had technical chops!) tried for an hour to get a normal wah sound out of it we were all left unsure whether it was broken, out-of-calibration, or both. So we all made the call to give up on the artist's idea without hearing it. I think of that as the gear letting us down.

I doubt the situation would've been massively improved had all of those controls been on the outside

That's the scenario where i said they should be used - for true calibration. Obviously you really don't want your DMM calibrations outside! It would not work unless you took an oscilloscope to shows

For guitarists to dial-in to taste, some of these are well advertised as being a thing the user adjusts and should adjust; is the bad choice.
The Broadcast has gains inside, and one model has the lo-cut. Delays with modulation depth? Fuzzes with mode switches? Well, it even seems like its marketed to give some cool- factor to the devices or maybe as mentioned [cheap, less drilling, circuit arrangement, late decisions]

I like if thre is a decent recessed switch or mini-knob (if even necessary- well the broadcast would be quite useful to have fuzz or overdrive on one side and the other as boost.). On the other end of this the Rubberneck delay has loose stacked knob that get kicked and turn together despite them being quite fine parameters like gain/tone/depth/speed, and things like the 'ramp' effect being on the bypass switch so it doesn't always bypass. Definately a sweet spot to designing controls that won't satisfy everyone.

Another is Red Panda context v2. Thats got shift button mini-knobs (albeit another issue as above the freeze/hold occupies same footswitch and its too small). Its also got more management online with USB so you can set things and then have your simplified pedal when you've forgot about it. Something else would be the toneprint by TC its quite wired toward set+forget but whatever myriad of fx you load you have a few knobs to play wth.

Guitarists asked to use a screwdriver- well not a great idea for many of them. For those who can its still annoying because you can't set something intended to be styled to finer elements of playing.

[øøøøøøø]

Yeah, interestingly it seems as though we may be converging on a similar conclusion from different angles!

I’d say, from my perspective:

Trimmers inside for calibration: completely reasonable!

Trimmers inside to allow users to personalize their pedal: well-intentioned, but seldom good in practice.

Just to prove myself full of contradictions—I have a Malekko Omicron fuzz. It’s tiny, so they put the “all mids/no mids” switch from the Superfuzz on the inside. I really wish they had found a way to put it on the outside instead.

[Unicorn Warrior]

Yeah, I’m not a huge fan. When I’m not in an active season, I play guitar once every few weeks because of my busy life. Because of that, the thought of even unhooking and unvelcroing a pedal from my board and unscrewing it to make an adjustment that I’m not even sure I’ll like, just to hook it back up and test it again is unnerving. The moments I have to play are limited. If the secret to tone is on some BS setting on the back, I’ll never find it.

I had an ARC effects soothsayer Rat clone. Hated the pedal, couldn’t tame it like me cheap Provo rat, but to beat it all there were internal dip switches that I thought I could adjust to fix it. When I couldn’t, I hated it even more

[panoramic]

Yeah, I’m not a huge fan. When I’m not in an active season, I play guitar once every few weeks because of my busy life. Because of that, the thought of even unhooking and unvelcroing a pedal from my board and unscrewing it to make an adjustment that I’m not even sure I’ll like, just to hook it back up and test it again is unnerving. The moments I have to play are limited. If the secret to tone is on some BS setting on the back, I’ll never find it.

I had an ARC effects soothsayer Rat clone. Hated the pedal, couldn’t tame it like me cheap Provo rat, but to beat it all there were internal dip switches that I thought I could adjust to fix it. When I couldn’t, I hated it even more

I play in spurts and most of it is unplugged these days. I totally identify with this post.
I've had a few pedals (alexander superball for one) that were just too much BS for me to even enjoy. It's not because they aren't good it's a time and attention span thing for me, I don't buy a pedal hoping to "learn" about it through the handbook in the box. It's just totally foreign to me

[Unicorn Warrior]

Yeah, I’m not a huge fan. When I’m not in an active season, I play guitar once every few weeks because of my busy life. Because of that, the thought of even unhooking and unvelcroing a pedal from my board and unscrewing it to make an adjustment that I’m not even sure I’ll like, just to hook it back up and test it again is unnerving. The moments I have to play are limited. If the secret to tone is on some BS setting on the back, I’ll never find it.

I had an ARC effects soothsayer Rat clone. Hated the pedal, couldn’t tame it like me cheap Provo rat, but to beat it all there were internal dip switches that I thought I could adjust to fix it. When I couldn’t, I hated it even more

I play in spurts and most of it is unplugged these days. I totally identify with this post.
I've had a few pedals (alexander superball for one) that were just too much BS for me to even enjoy. It's not because they aren't good it's a time and attention span thing for me, I don't buy a pedal hoping to "learn" about it through the handbook in the box. It's just totally foreign to me

Don’t get me wrong. I have enjoyed big box pedals with tons of parameters. But, at least I can tweak on the fly. Learn them in my own time without having to unhook, unvelcro, and take apart.

One cool thing about chase bliss pedals is, while they’re complex, at least the dip switches are on the back

[Lost In Autumn]

I'm gonna go on the other side here. I like a simple pedal. Too many options and I tend to find myself tweaking into oblivion and never being happy....chasing a sound. If there's options to be set inside I can find one I like then easily forget about them forever. Often I don't even look at them at all and leave whatever it is stock. 3 examples of how my brain treats them

TLDR: I can live in ignorant bliss. Put all the dipswitches you want inside, I'm probably never going to even look at them.

I'm the same: I have a Walrus Audio R1 & D1 on my board, it took me a lot of fussing, more than I would like, to get the sound that I was seeking on both of them because there were simply too many options. I have a sound in my head and I set it and forget it. I love a pedal with fewer controls on the outside.