Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

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Dollywitch
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Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by Dollywitch » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:02 pm

I'm a pretty big fan of Boris but more generally, fuzzy distortion and doom type tones. I've been looking at different types of RATs and the like, and pedals like the Lil Fella - which is a bit of a dream drive pedal, but out of my price range. The Hizumitas is maybe my ideal Muff not just due to it being the Wata Fuzz, but the fact that it seems to have a much less stuffy texture/more articulation than the classic Muff.

I've been looking a lot at the Honey Pot Fuzz, which shares some similarities in terms of it being a less scooped and slightly brighter Muff. I can't figure out what Muff it's based off. I used to have a modded black russian with the Creamy Dreamer - I've generally preferred the sounds of the Russians, but it seems to be pretty much totalled. I also have a Devi Ever Soda Meiser, though I seem to have misplaced it, but keeping mind I might not want to intrude on that territory.

It seems like the Honey Pot could be good for Doom type stuff, but it feels a lot like a "Black Keys in a Box" pedal. It might be worth investing in since it's so cheap and doing a simple mod for more gain maybe though?

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by MechaBulletBill » Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:06 am


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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by Dollywitch » Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:27 am

That's really neat - unfortunately with Brexit, the shipping/customs means I'd nearly as easily get a Hizumitas. Maybe I can get a UK Relative to get one if my Mum is going over.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:54 am

I thought Wata mainly used a Roland BeeBaa for fuzz tones? I guess she does use a BeeBaa, but mostly the ELK BM Sustainar? The Hizumitas is a clone of that pedal, but after reading up on the ELK, it’s really just a Big Muff in name only.

Both Wata and EQD say it’s more a heavy distortion than a Big Muff. So it looks like if you want that sound you actually need the Hizumitas and not a Big Muff, Russian or otherwise. Or a BeeBaa. I have and highly recommend that one.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by Dollywitch » Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:47 am

Like I said - I'm looking for a Fuzzy distortion. I have enough actual fuzzes - Joyo Voodoo Octave, Zvex Fuzz Factory, MXR Blue Box, Devi Ever Soda Meiser, Devi Ever Disaster Fuzz Clone, even a Fender Blender Clone that I've misplaced.

My ideal Muff type fuzz would probably have a clean control though - shoving it into an overdriven amp so you get that glassy texture that's really good for Shoegaze. My Zoom G1xFour has a clean blend BIg Muff model and it's great.

One of the reasons I'd say the Big Muff tends to be more fuzz than distortion is that most models don't have a lot of string articulation - it tends to filter out the high end going in meaning it's hard to get a Big Muff tone to sound like a "guitar" tone. I could be wrong but I think the Elk Sustainiac, particularly Wata's, did less of that which is why it sounds like a more true distortion. The problem with that is then you have to tame the top end at the end. Pedals like RATs are known for getting very bright but have the filter control(and get fatter with the gain turned up). I think it was a design issue they struggled with back in the day w/solid state esp. silicon components but i could be wrong.

I think I want a pedal to sound like a broken Orange amp with some Big Muff signal blended in.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by Dollywitch » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:06 am

Since people are talking about the Green Muff - maybe the Nano Bass would be best as it has the clean switch? It might be the only one I don't have to mod.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by MechaBulletBill » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:08 am

fuzzjunkie wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:54 am
Both Wata and EQD say it’s more a heavy distortion than a Big Muff. So it looks like if you want that sound you actually need the Hizumitas and not a Big Muff, Russian or otherwise.
i just got a hizumitas yesterday and i can tell you, it's not not a big muff. definitely some crossover there with other high-quality clones i've had in the past like the fredric green russian and the w&c box of war. but yes, the hizumitas has a character distinct from most muffs i've tried, possibly because it's closer to the earliest "triangle" muff circuit than other versions?

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by JSett » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:15 am

If you don't mind a quick and easy mod then grab a bog-standard NYC Big Muff and swap the clipping diodes for red LEDs. That'll get you pretty close. Totally opens up the sound, less compressed, brighter and grittier...and a metric fuck-ton of extra volume (almost too much).

Feed that into an appropriately voiced amp and you'll be in a good place.
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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:10 pm

MechaBulletBill wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:08 am
fuzzjunkie wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:54 am
Both Wata and EQD say it’s more a heavy distortion than a Big Muff. So it looks like if you want that sound you actually need the Hizumitas and not a Big Muff, Russian or otherwise.
i just got a hizumitas yesterday and i can tell you, it's not not a big muff. definitely some crossover there with other high-quality clones i've had in the past like the fredric green russian and the w&c box of war. but yes, the hizumitas has a character distinct from most muffs i've tried, possibly because it's closer to the earliest "triangle" muff circuit than other versions?
The Elk BM is from 1973, so definitely modeled after an earlier Big Muff.

For other not- not Muff pedals, Wata has another fuzz box based off the Foxxtone named after her. The Foxxtone is a heavy distortion/ Muff fuzz when the octave is turned off.

Johnny mentioned modding the diodes, if you remove them entirely you basically have a Jumbo Tonebender, which is a Big Muff based circuit that is also more open and less compressed than a traditional Muff.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by JSett » Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:34 pm

fuzzjunkie wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:10 pm
Johnny mentioned modding the diodes, if you remove them entirely you basically have a Jumbo Tonebender, which is a Big Muff based circuit that is also more open and less compressed than a traditional Muff.
Yeah, the no diodes sound is great also. Real nice pushing an already cooking amp while retaining clarity. It's not going to be as thick sounding as the Boris heavy tones but quite fun anyway. And a NYC Muff can be snagged used for very little money so you can get some cool sounds for just a small outlay and a little effort.
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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by Dollywitch » Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:44 pm

I'm thinking the best option for me could be the Nano Bass Muff as it has the clean blend and costs around the same as the Green Russian it's based off

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by Dollywitch » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:36 am

Not sure the Russian based Muffs really have the "Bite" i'm looking for either, feeling a bit lost. Listened to the Tone Wicker muff, and while i like the Tone Wicker option, it's still maybe not what I'm looking for.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by ThePearDream » Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:42 am

Here are some PCB options, in case you can't find a premade one:
US https://www.pedalpcb.com/product/pcb452/
EU https://pcbguitarmania.com/product/elk-device/
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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:06 pm

ThePearDream wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:42 am
Here are some PCB options, in case you can't find a premade one:
US https://www.pedalpcb.com/product/pcb452/
EU https://pcbguitarmania.com/product/elk-device/
I found this the other day before I read the OP was considering a Bass Muff.
ELK BIG MUFF SUSTAINAR / SUPER FUZZ SUSTAINAR - Among the many Japanese Big Muff clones, one of the first on the market was the Super Fuzz Sustainar, a nearly exact clone of a 1972 era Big Muff made by the Hoshino Gakki company (early units possibly made by Miyuki Ind. Co.) sometime around 1973. It was housed in an identical enclosure to the V1 Big Muff with very similar graphics. These were sold throughout the 1970s, and not long after its introduction, Gakki shamelessly changed the name from Super Fuzz to Big Muff. The pedals marked Electro Sound are the earliest, and those marked Elk Incorporated or Elk/Gakki are the later made production.

The circuit is identical to a PNP triangle circuit from 1972, almost identical to the PNP circuit shown above. The only change made was the high pass cap in the tone section at C9. Typically .004µF, it was changed to 330pF in the Sustainar. This had the effect of retaining treble when the tone pot was turned to the bass side, making the bass range more useful. When fully in the bass position the overall volume level is significantly higher than other tone settings as well.
That explains the difference in the high end and sounds like a relatively easy mod.

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Re: Cheaper alternative to Hizumitas/Muff clones?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:17 pm

Dollywitch wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:36 am
Not sure the Russian based Muffs really have the "Bite" i'm looking for either, feeling a bit lost. Listened to the Tone Wicker muff, and while i like the Tone Wicker option, it's still maybe not what I'm looking for.
It’s not what you’ve been asking for, and I don’t know of any cheap clones (most of the good ones are $200-250), but this screams “I want a Buzzaround” to me. Check out a Burns Buzzaround and there’s probably some cheaper clone out there that’s not boutique. Maybe an EQD Sound Shank if you can find one.

Another fuzzy distortion is Catalinbread Katzenkonig Fuzz. A mix of a Rat and a Tonebender. It might not be aggressive enough for what you want though.

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