Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

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Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:05 pm

So, in a recent thread, some kind fellow forumites sent me down the Vox fuzz rabbit hole. After learning the Fuzz Face fundamentals, I'm looking at other 2-transistor fuzz variants in that family.

My quest for a bargain-basement entry into the Tone Bender and Vox fuzz families (incl. Colorsound) got me looking into the Vox Distortion Booster plugins after @fuzzjunkie pointed me toward that Italian Vox/Jen silicon family.

Newly learned schematic baby steps had me looking at the paperwork for the "straight-line" V816, the "T-shaped" V8161 with a volume knob, and the V8162, a boxier model with both a volume and fuzz control.

I don't know much, but I knew enough to notice some significantly different values between them. So, I tried making them my first "not following someone else's layout" breadboard project, and can report they DO sound different. I mean, both fairly straightforward silicon fuzz, but the V8161 had more density and snarl, felt a little less polite. I can't put my finger on why, but I like it more. Both definitely got me into Spacemen 3 territory when I put it through some reverb and played "Rollercoaster".

***IMPORTANT TO ALL FUTURE DIYers!***
There's an error in the V8161 schematic, apparently, where the resistor marked 150K is supposed to actually be 150R. With a 150R in there, it's the Vox-y fuzz you're looking for.

I hear the V816 briefly came in a germanium model that was based on the FZ-1, but that's outside my scope for the moment. If I'm going to build a 2-transistor germanium Vox anything, it's going to be a Tone Bender.

I'm done for the day, but the schematic I found for the V8162 is positive ground, so I'm going to have to sniff around some more on that one. Will report back.

Image

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Anybody else want to weigh in on this trio of '60s Vox fuzz devices?
Last edited by MrShake on Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:10 pm

Image

Image

It's half alive.

Finished the enclosure, the bypass wiring, and the first board so far. Sounds good, sounds like it should. Output volume is a little low, but as expected with a vintage "matched output" circuit.

I had to rearrange my preferred Fuzz Face vero layout to account for a resistor instead of a pot, but since the emitter of Q2 sends signal through the cap and resistor in parallel, it made sense on what to do, so, it works!

Digging it. Real '60s garage vibes. If I have time tonight, I might plow through the second circuit board, but so far it seems like a victory.

Will update once it's done, gonna spend the night enjoying a new toy made of spare parts.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:14 pm

I couldn't resist.

Image

Image

Sounds wicked. The "straight-line" V816 is a little tame on volume, but great sound. The V8161 though, is pretty beastly and has plenty of volume on tap.

If you were looking to build one yourself, go for the V8161, the above linked layout works well, if you follow the three changes in the comments to match the schematic.

Damn, this sounds good. And both together is a totally usable disgusting grind.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by fuzzjunkie » Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:22 pm

The only Vox fuzz I have experience with was a silver and black Italian made V828. I don’t know how much difference there is circuit wise, but I believe that one had two germanium transistors.

I didn’t know much about fuzz pedals back then and thought it sounded like the classic “wasps in a jar” compared to my Big Muff. I only had a silverface Twin at the time, so it probably would have sounded more robust into a Marshall or Vox amp.

I like the recorded sounds of the Distortion Booster though.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by hulakatt » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:17 am

IIRC, the Vintage Technologies Orange Sunshine fuzz is based on the Vox Distortion Booster but I never looked into which circuit version. It's a gnarly, no knob wonder that's one of my favorite fuzzes. Just a relatively unique fuzz and a lot of fun!

Image
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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:59 am

hulakatt wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:17 am
IIRC, the Vintage Technologies Orange Sunshine fuzz is based on the Vox Distortion Booster but I never looked into which circuit version. It's a gnarly, no knob wonder that's one of my favorite fuzzes. Just a relatively unique fuzz and a lot of fun!
Okay, so, I (admittedly, half-distracted), looked up an Orange Sunshine schematic and it looks like the only differing value is that there's a 470 ohm resistor in the OS that's only 47 ohm in the original's schematic. Which is probably why I don't read about a volume drop with the OS.

... damn it.

So, after looking that up, I've got that nagging feeling telling me to leave well enough alone. Because the stock output is the PERFECT thing to push the second stage into what my wife called a "murder hornet" sound. But it's also sort of useless volume wise as anything but a recording device.

But a switch with a 47 ohm resistor on one pole and a 470 on the other would give this "vintage" and "modern" modes. One for boosting the V8161, one as a standalone sound, same as the Orange Sunshine.

I played it before I went to bed last night. My wife listened. It sounded great. When I woke up this morning, turned it on, hadn't moved it, squealed with crazy feedback oscillation. I spent an hour with a knife, carving channels between Vero tracks. Eventually, it started working right again. My only theory is that as it cooled overnight after all the work, something connected input and output signal. Great sound, kinda like my Supersonic Fuzz Gun, but not something I wanted. Troubleshooting was frustrating. Reflowed every connection, wire, jack, etc. It took a number of passes with the knife to somehow break whatever was doing it, didn't seem like the tenth time would be the charm.

Is it worth going in, removing the resistor (from, admittedly, the board that DIDN'T have a problem), taping everything up for a small switch hole, and hoping I can pull it off to gain a "free upgrade"?

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by Pacafeliz » Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:58 am

Oh i have one of the JEN branded/boxed ones and these things really ROAR!!!

Image
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:26 pm

Pacafeliz wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:58 am
Oh i have one of the JEN branded/boxed ones and these things really ROAR!!!

Image

Oooh, that thing is lovely! You have the BEST stuff!!

I'm actually eager to get a few parts in the mail so I can build a version of that beauty next - the whole V816x family!

If I'm right (which is always a gamble), that's the same thing as the V8162, whose circuitry looks closer to the V816 than it does to the T-shaped V8161, which I love. Can't wait to line 'em all up and see!

But with that pictured version being what it is, can you offer any comparison to where it sits tonally against a Fuzz Face or a Vox Tone Bender? I mean, I'm excited to build it myself, but would love to know what to expectn

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:08 am

I couldn't leave well enough alone.

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After thinking about it for a few days, I decided to try my hand at adding an "Orange Sunshine" switch. I clipped the 47 ohm resistor and replaced it with a switch for 47 ohms or 470. In "Vintage" mode it boosts the second fuzz with nasty without pushing it too hard into squealies (so far). Flip the switch, and it's an Orange Sunshine, which has a bigger volume boost than I expected. No real tonal shift that I've noticed so far, just more volume. Which is good.

Image

So, if you're interested, just build the Orange Sunshine. The same, but louder. Definitely proof that it was worth making this a fuzz worth playing independently without a vintage-style volume drop.

Also, while shifting stuff around, I broke the lead to the LED, so I replaced it with a green one. Panache!

A new pot comes in the mail tomorrow and hopefully I can get the V8162 (like that beautiful Jen model!) on the breadboard and running!

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by hulakatt » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:39 pm

Maybe you should use a bigger box and just put all the circuits in one enclosure!
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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:14 am

hulakatt wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:39 pm
Maybe you should use a bigger box and just put all the circuits in one enclosure!
You are the best kind of bad influence.

Don't tempt me.

Because then I'll have to figure out a Repeater tremolo and add some boosters and go whole-hog Spacemen 3 like the Reuss or Acid Fuzz.

It is, after playing this a while, surprising. I built it more of a "let's have a fun project". But it probably suits meore than any of the 4 Fuzz Face variants I finished. Initially, I thought of these V816s as both "generic" and "unique". Nothing super distinctive, but a really good meat and potatoes silicon fuzz, like a prime cut with a loaded baked potato. But I didn't have anything else that quite hit the same fuzz spot, they were all scooped or over the top screaming or hyper-buzzy.

It was a "missing" sound in my fuzz lineup. Midrangey, compared to the all-treble slash or wooly Fuzz Face/Big Muff. Certainly not polite, real quiet on the noise, but mean and throaty.

After noodling a while, there's so much that uses this general flavor I hadn't realized. Spacemen 3, Velvet Underground, Nuggets, mid-period Beatles (Rubber Soul, Revolver), modern nasty garage punk, and retains enough clarity in a shoegaze wash while still blurring nicely.

I guess some of these mid-focused fuzzes fell out of favor with mid-focused overdrives taking care of that sound for players who wanted something more subtle once fuzz was passe and other options came available. I'm a novice to the historical details of lot of this vintage Vox/garage fuzz stuff beyond the basics (I've generally played a Superfuzz or other monsters), but I know my sounds, and I guess this does feel like a little brother, sort of "Vox Tone Bender Jr". Cheaper to manufacture, but not without some of the same tone-shaping DNA, and sounds great on its own merit.

After I finish the V8162 this week, I'll consider my semester with the Vox Distortion Booster Family mostly done and move on to something else.

Maybe.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by fuzzjunkie » Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:46 am

If you like a mid focused fuzz you might try your hand at a Tonebender MK2.
After I finish the V8162 this week, I'll consider my semester with the Vox Distortion Booster Family mostly done and move on to something else.
It would be thicker and smoother while still retaining some crunch along with the sustain. Not as smooth as a Big Muff and has less bass, but it’s not scooped out and will cut through a mix. More sustain than a Fuzz Face, but isn’t woolly and doesn’t clean up as well, but much more than the Muff will.

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:16 pm

fuzzjunkie wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:46 am
If you like a mid focused fuzz you might try your hand at a Tonebender MK2.
[...]
It would be thicker and smoother while still retaining some crunch along with the sustain. Not as smooth as a Big Muff and has less bass, but it’s not scooped out and will cut through a mix. More sustain than a Fuzz Face, but isn’t woolly and doesn’t clean up as well, but much more than the Muff will.
All awesome to note, and that sounds super appealing. And yeah, I've been tilting that way. I've just had a real hard time sourcing adequate (not perfect) transistors. I've educated myself a bit on Fuzz Faces, but Tone Bender transistors are still mysterious to me. Any 2022 suggestions?

My other potential upcoming projects are a Vox Tone Bender and a Jen Fuzz (the FZIII, maybe? One of those really hideous ones with the extra clipping diodes.)

And I've finally got the V8162 up and running on the breadboard. I hit a snag following the original 1969 factory schematic. It "worked", but only put out a muffled overdrive type sound. My first suspect was the input and output caps, but they matched the V8121, so I figured they'd be in the same tonal ballpark. I tried upgrading to BC108Bs from the BC108A, but no substantial improvement.

I compared that original schematic to someone else's trace (the fact that it had both volume and distortion controls indicated it was the right schematic for this third model). The modern schematic showed a different circuit around the fuzz pot (the cap connected to the pot instead of parallel to it, and the resistor on its own path to ground, essentially swapping the two components), and the fuzz pot was listed as 5K instead of the original's 50K.

So, the original schematic didn't get me close to the sound, but with a swap of the cap and resistor off the fuzz wing of the Q2 emitter, and a change from 50K to 5K in the fuzz pot, it's right in line with the previous iterations of the Distortion Booster - mid-emphasis, "medium-tight" fuzz. The original 1969 schematic also indicated a positive ground circuit, when this version, to my knowledge, never used germanium transistors. It seems like that original schematic is bunk.

If you want to build it, poke around online for a "Vox Distortion Booster" schematic that lists both a volume and distortion (5K) pot. Will report back once I get this thing boxed and up and running. Very much my kind of thing, and I'm still surprised how I can bond with this a lot more than a typical Fuzz Face version of the same circuitry roadmap. I really am starting to understand that caps and biasing are so much of what distinguishes one variant of a fuzz topology from another.

Image

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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by hulakatt » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:24 pm

MrShake wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:14 am
hulakatt wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:39 pm
Maybe you should use a bigger box and just put all the circuits in one enclosure!
Don't tempt me.

Because then I'll have to figure out a Repeater tremolo and add some boosters and go whole-hog Spacemen 3 like the Reuss or Acid Fuzz.

It is, after playing this a while, surprising. I built it more of a "let's have a fun project". But it probably suits meore than any of the 4 Fuzz Face variants I finished. Initially, I thought of these V816s as both "generic" and "unique". Nothing super distinctive, but a really good meat and potatoes silicon fuzz, like a prime cut with a loaded baked potato. But I didn't have anything else that quite hit the same fuzz spot, they were all scooped or over the top screaming or hyper-buzzy.
Ha! I had my first OS years ago and sold it because I kinda thought it didn't really stand out. After I sold it, I realized I couldn't really get that sound from anything else and spent a long time looking for another one.
MrShake wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:14 am
You are the best kind of bad influence.
That's the loveliest compliment I've received in some time ;), thank you! I warn people that I am just full of really good bad ideas.
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Re: Vox Distortion Booster (V816, V8161, V8162)

Post by MrShake » Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:36 am

hulakatt wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:24 pm
Ha! I had my first OS years ago and sold it because I kinda thought it didn't really stand out. After I sold it, I realized I couldn't really get that sound from anything else and spent a long time looking for another one.
Bingo. I this is THAT kind of fuzz.

And since OSG gets quiet in the summer, I'm gonna keep dumping this project here.

So, I knew the OG V8162 schematic had issues. And the Fuzz central one by Philip Bryant (which fixed the fuzz pot for me) doesn't include the resistor to ground after the output cap. I'm new to layouts on vero, too (understanding them, not just copying them), but something didn't add up on the ones I'd found.

So, in trying to make this somewhat accurate, and taking the OG schematic's issues as a grain of salt, I tried to transcribe what was on my breadboard (which sounds great and very much in line with other models of the V816x) to a vero layout.

Image

Its really just a modification of the online Si Fuzz Face layout that I've been building from with a few changes:

1) Added R5, a 47K resistor to ground, in parallel with the volume pot, per Vox schematic. I get why modern schematic may have left it off, but I'm going old school.

2) Rearranged the network down by the Distortion pot. Off the Q2 emitter, there's a 2.7K resistor straight to ground in parallel with a 5K linear Fuzz pot that goes in series through a 10uF capacitor to ground, all per the Vox schematic. [Edit: per the Vox schematic's layout, the pot is different. I think that the resistor is just lowering the pot value like strapping it across lugs 3 and 1? So a 25K pot with no resistor seems logical too? I'm sticking with the 5K, but curious to figure what the original had, will keep looking.]

3) My initial wiring for the Distortion pot had the sweep backwards, so this wiring has it in the proper direction

Here's the breadboard in case anyone wants to check my work:

Image

I'll work on it this afternoon and post how it goes.

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