NOED! New Old Echolette Day

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Ursa Minor
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NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Thu May 19, 2022 8:29 pm

Super stoked! I've been looking for an Echolette for years and finally found one that I couldn't say no to. Took a gamble on this one for a decent price - untested but in really clean condition. All original Telefunkens, schematic, and manual included! :w00t: I know there's at least a few folks here who have one and might be able to offer some sage advice. This one belonged to an older studio musician from Nashville who was letting stuff go.

I'm told it worked well last time he used it (probably decade/s ago) but he lost the funky EU power cable. In order to test it out and see how it's running I'll need a new tape loop (check), a new power cable (check), and a fuse. The fuse is the part that I'm having trouble locating. The holder is too small for a standard 3AG 1/4" x 1-1/4" tube amp-style fuse. From measuring the inner diameter of the holder its more like 5mm x 20mm. :unsure:

Once I get that sorted I can get an idea for how the motor is running and proceed to do some maintenance. Anyone able to share insights on their fuses or where I could find something like this?

Cheers!

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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by MrShake » Sat May 21, 2022 1:31 am

Wish I could offer some advice on maintenance, but I don't know a thing about them. It's gorgeous, though. Truly gorgeous.

Pictures like this make me afraid that one day I'll be standing at the crossroads of my interests in guitar gear and vintage-styled electronics and I'll go mad as I travel down the tape echo path.

Enjoy that, post more pics, and please post clips once you get it up and running. I bet it sounds as good as it looks.

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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Veitchy » Sun May 22, 2022 3:21 pm

Love it.

I've always had a yen for these as they were used by an Australian surf band called The Atlantics. On 'Bombora', their most notable track, they set the echo super short to make it sound sort of like a reverb (I still like to set exhoplex-stlye pedals this way sometimes). Apparently you couldn't get hold of Fender spring units in Australia at the time. It ended up working out pretty well. For other tracks when they played live they would put their echo unit on a stool next to the drummer and he'd control the echo timing so it would always be in time with his beat.

Hopefully you can get it up and running soon - they're meant to have a nice warm preamp in them too - it should sound lovely.

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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Wed May 25, 2022 8:18 pm

MrShake wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 1:31 am
Wish I could offer some advice on maintenance, but I don't know a thing about them. It's gorgeous, though. Truly gorgeous.

Pictures like this make me afraid that one day I'll be standing at the crossroads of my interests in guitar gear and vintage-styled electronics and I'll go mad as I travel down the tape echo path.

Enjoy that, post more pics, and please post clips once you get it up and running. I bet it sounds as good as it looks.
Thanks! I've definitely gone mad! :D Haven't been down this path for a while but here I am. Really looking forward to getting this going. Will definitely be posting more updates and pics as I progress.
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Wed May 25, 2022 8:20 pm

Veitchy wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 3:21 pm
Love it.

I've always had a yen for these as they were used by an Australian surf band called The Atlantics. On 'Bombora', their most notable track, they set the echo super short to make it sound sort of like a reverb (I still like to set exhoplex-stlye pedals this way sometimes). Apparently you couldn't get hold of Fender spring units in Australia at the time. It ended up working out pretty well. For other tracks when they played live they would put their echo unit on a stool next to the drummer and he'd control the echo timing so it would always be in time with his beat.

Hopefully you can get it up and running soon - they're meant to have a nice warm preamp in them too - it should sound lovely.
Nice reference! I'll have to check them out. Awesome the drummer was syncing it up manual. Respect.

I'm just as interested in hearing the fabled preamp as much as the delay sounds.
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Wed May 25, 2022 8:26 pm

Update: Still on the hunt for a proper fuse. Seems more likely its a 5x25mm or 5x30mm fuse. Having a hell of a time finding a glass slow-blow fuse in that size though. Been looking at German electronic sites and ebay for anything, even NOS options. Found some fast-acting fuses in that size but not sure if they'll blow on start up.

Didn't think the fuse would be the part holding things up. If I can't find anything I might consider replacing the fuse holder with a more standard one that fits a 3AG size fuse. Still holding out though. For the record I'm not precious about changing a part like that to get it up to speed. :whistle: I'd just rather find the right part first if possible.

For the time being it sits, patiently waiting on top of my Princeton. :'(
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by LVC » Thu May 26, 2022 1:12 am

Tim Froderman at bandecho.de is an authority on the subject of Echolettes and similar devices. You can contact him, his email address is at the bottom of this page.

A few years ago one of these Echolettes came up for sale locally at a very good price. I hesitated for too long and missed it... I've been kicking myself since :squint:
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Thu May 26, 2022 7:39 am

LVC wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:12 am
Tim Froderman at bandecho.de is an authority on the subject of Echolettes and similar devices. You can contact him, his email address is at the bottom of this page.

A few years ago one of these Echolettes came up for sale locally at a very good price. I hesitated for too long and missed it... I've been kicking myself since :squint:
Thanks so much! :-* I remember watching his videos a while back but completely forgot. I sent him an email this morning. Hoping he responds. :)
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Fri May 27, 2022 8:04 pm

Great news - Tim replied! Say's I need a 5x20mm fuse, 600mA slow-blow. Got one coming in the mail next week. 8) He was super helpful as are his site/videos. Kindly wrote me a lengthy thread with some great tips on things to check and look out for. He even offered to look at some pics and advise. I feel like this is a game changer. Tim is definitely the resource for all things Echolette. This was just what I needed to help me get started.

Still hope the fuse is the right length. Measuring the fuse holder made it seem like I should be looking for something like 25mm. Will post some results once it's here. Until then I have to make a new cable with the NOS connector I received.

Image

I'll also need to dust it out a bit even though it's already pretty clean. Going to do a closer inspection per Tim's advice to make sure nothing looks burnt or suspect. After that it'll be time to fire it up and see where we are. :ph34r:
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by 46346 » Mon May 30, 2022 10:29 am

Hey, Nick! i'm back home from a traveling gig and i'm glad you got the straight Jimmy from an actual experienced tech. i went back and looked at my first unit that i pulled the fuse from (which has seen a few mods in it's past, and is still not yet 100% working for me), and i noticed that sure enough, a previous cat has completely replaced the fuse holder and mounting plate with a classic American set up. hence, my AGC 3 fuse is not stock, it looks like the handiwork of an American amp tech, it looks like Fender amp style. this unit was my first foray into the Echolette, and while i've gotten the preamp sounding real clear and the motor is running strong with what appears to be a steady tape loop going, it's been a puzzle about playback. i've realized this unit has probably suffered some not-so-to-spec rehab work, and i'll probably enlist the help of someone who as experience with these, as they are pretty complex, and very tightly wired in the first place.

i went and looked at my schematic, and it says 300mA, just like you said...
interesting how Tim says to go with 600mA, i wonder if that's because we're running mains at
120v instead of 240?

the good news over here, as you know, is that my 2nd gamble on an Echolette paid off pretty easily!
it's the one we were talking about in the Setup of the day thread:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17579&sid=fc01bf6a ... start=4755

i'll have to take a look at the fuse, that Echolette is over in my studio where i don't have internet, but i can take a photo for ya. as i recall the fuse holder cap is way bigger and knob-like, compared to our typical US amplifier type.
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by DaddyDom » Mon May 30, 2022 7:25 pm

Veitchy wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 3:21 pm
Hopefully you can get it up and running soon - they're meant to have a nice warm preamp in them too - it should sound lovely.
If it's anything like the one in my Watkins Copicat, you're absolutely right. Even when they're not echoing, they're just great left in the signal chain.ain. ain.ain.ain.ain.

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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by Ursa Minor » Mon May 30, 2022 8:33 pm

46346 wrote:
Mon May 30, 2022 10:29 am
Hey, Nick! i'm back home from a traveling gig and i'm glad you got the straight Jimmy from an actual experienced tech. i went back and looked at my first unit that i pulled the fuse from (which has seen a few mods in it's past, and is still not yet 100% working for me), and i noticed that sure enough, a previous cat has completely replaced the fuse holder and mounting plate with a classic American set up. hence, my AGC 3 fuse is not stock, it looks like the handiwork of an American amp tech, it looks like Fender amp style. this unit was my first foray into the Echolette, and while i've gotten the preamp sounding real clear and the motor is running strong with what appears to be a steady tape loop going, it's been a puzzle about playback. i've realized this unit has probably suffered some not-so-to-spec rehab work, and i'll probably enlist the help of someone who as experience with these, as they are pretty complex, and very tightly wired in the first place.

i went and looked at my schematic, and it says 300mA, just like you said...
interesting how Tim says to go with 600mA, i wonder if that's because we're running mains at
120v instead of 240?

the good news over here, as you know, is that my 2nd gamble on an Echolette paid off pretty easily!
it's the one we were talking about in the Setup of the day thread:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17579&sid=fc01bf6a ... start=4755

i'll have to take a look at the fuse, that Echolette is over in my studio where i don't have internet, but i can take a photo for ya. as i recall the fuse holder cap is way bigger and knob-like, compared to our typical US amplifier type.
Welcome back, Eric! Hope the gig was a success. 8) Super excited that Tim is helping me out. We've been in contact this week and I'm learning a lot already. Interesting and not surprising that the fuse holder was replaced. It makes sense if there was no access to the proper fuse or perhaps a lack of info if it was done pre-internet. Tim recommended a 600mA fuse with the voltage selector set to 110v. (300mA would be for running at 240v)

He also pointed out that the voltage selector for the US would be appropriate in either 110v or 130v setting. Since modern wall voltages are more like 120v in the US, you'll either have internal voltages that are a little higher or lower than original spec. He said either setting should run fine without causing any problems. Just something to mention. ;) FWIW I'll probably stick with the 110v to start.

The fuse should arrive in the next few days. Hoping to get closure on if its the right fit soon! I also need to make a new power cable. I was planning to use the NOS connector above but Tim says they're not really up to code. Waiting to hear back and hopefully get more on why exactly. My options are 1) hard wire a 3-conductor grounded cable 2) install a modern EIC still jack (like a computer-style cable - I'm told the connector would fit in the chassis.) or 3) Go with the original bakelite connector — if its safe.
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by 46346 » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:06 pm

Ursa Minor wrote:
Mon May 30, 2022 8:33 pm

He also pointed out that the voltage selector for the US would be appropriate in either 110v or 130v setting. Since modern wall voltages are more like 120v in the US, you'll either have internal voltages that are a little higher or lower than original spec. He said either setting should run fine without causing any problems. Just something to mention. ;) FWIW I'll probably stick with the 110v to start.

The fuse should arrive in the next few days. Hoping to get closure on if its the right fit soon! I also need to make a new power cable. I was planning to use the NOS connector above but Tim says they're not really up to code. Waiting to hear back and hopefully get more on why exactly. My options are 1) hard wire a 3-conductor grounded cable 2) install a modern EIC still jack (like a computer-style cable - I'm told the connector would fit in the chassis.) or 3) Go with the original bakelite connector — if its safe.
aye - my main (100% working, unmolested) unit had been run with the voltage selector at 110v.
it had served it's life since 1962 in the semi-rural towns of Pennsylvania, it's sole ownership being from a regional band, Jimmy and the Tropics. apparently they would run vocals and guitar through the separate channels. the last surviving member of the band (who apparently is still rocking on drums on other gigs!) finally put it up on consignment. that's where i got lucky.

as a precaution, before firing it up at my studio, i put it on a variac and very gradually dialed it up to 110v exactly. everything was cool, i played it that way for a few days. thing is, every year or so i check the voltage at my studio outlets, and i tend to come in at 124 VAC. so, i moved the voltage input selector to 130v, after taking the variac out of the line.

(i wonder where in the world 130v was a standard back then?).


i've had a couple of Japanese amps rated at 100v, and one time i used one without the variac keeping the input voltage in check, and sure enough it seems my line voltage jacked up the B+ of the amp and cooked the power tubes :fp:



Nick, i'm using the original cord, which is in good shape, though i can see how the plug itself is not up to current code. in my case it is seating well, and makes a good ground connection with the 3-prong wall socket plug on the other end. this is a lot nicer than some of my other vintage amps that work well but may not be gig ready by today's standards.

personally i wouldn't be too worried about it, in terms of getting the unit fired up. just maybe think twice before hooking up to a monster amplifier. just making sure you have a good ground. mine does, and i've started using it with a more complex dual-amp set up, one of them being pretty hefty.

any news on your end? i'm often concerned when a vintage device comes unfused, it's often a sign of someone giving up on an unfound short. but in this case it might just be because of the oddity/rarity of the fuse itself.

cheers!
Last edited by 46346 on Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by 46346 » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:24 pm

DaddyDom wrote:
Mon May 30, 2022 7:25 pm
Veitchy wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 3:21 pm
Hopefully you can get it up and running soon - they're meant to have a nice warm preamp in them too - it should sound lovely.
If it's anything like the one in my Watkins Copicat, you're absolutely right. Even when they're not echoing, they're just great left in the signal chain.ain. ain.ain.ain.ain.
my main Echolette preamp does seem to impart a nice, slight heft and thickness to the tonz, even when the tape circuit is bypassed. this one has the original Telefunken 12ax7's (and a 12au7 methinks as well, offhand). what's curious is that of the two inputs, input 1 is more sensitive, and seems brighter, than input 2. at first i thought i might want to diagnose input 2 (it is also noisier). perhaps the tube is giving out, or a resistor as drifted afar, or a coupling cap is leaky.

the cool news is that my other guitar is a keyboard, a classic Wurlitzer 200A, which is a much hotter output than my guitar pedalboard. so it's quite suited to the less-sensitive input #2, and the noise is much less a factor. so i'm leaving the whole thing exactly as it came for now. why mess with ancient, compact circuits if you don't have to?

i can crank the input level and get a serious crunch! what's amazing is you can dial in specific amounts of input tube drive, *and* tape saturation, independently of each other. i'm not real big on this particular input overdrive, but many folks are. the guy from Dungen comes to mind. it's a very 'searing' overdrive, even though the clean is slightly heavy. i'll overdrive it occasionally, but i tend to like darker, chunkier drives better. the great news for me is that the tape saturation itself is *very* strong and boundless, dark or bright, depending on how you tweak it.


on my other unit (apparently a modded work in progress, and not giving tape playback) the preamp is *very* clean and clear sounding. it has less tubey character than my #1. it has seen a lot more re-capping and a newer generation of tubes. i can't even really overdrive it, which i think indicates something odd. i'm going to need help with this one, but i can't really afford it right now. i can't decide if it's worth restoring, or more of a parts machine. still, even the clean preamp tone makes it useful as a front end for direct recording, etc. and cosmetically it's beautiful. i keep this one in my 'home studio', while the main unit #1 is a workhorse in my 'real studio'...
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Re: NOED! New Old Echolette Day

Post by DaddyDom » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:32 pm

what's curious is that of the two inputs, input 1 is more sensitive, and seems brighter, than input 2. at first i thought i might want to diagnose input 2 (it is also noisier).
On my Copicat it's the same but my tech wired it this way to give me options. Many/most amps do this too.
DD

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