Klon KTR prices

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by Maggieo » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:14 pm

According to Joe Gore, the "magic diode" that gives you "the KLON sound," isn't engaged until the gain is at, at least, 9 o'clock. Otherwise, it's a totally generic clean boost, and you might as well sell it.
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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by fendertweed » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:44 pm

Ime it helps/matters upon judging klones to have heard, if not played a real Klon Centaur. Not that easy I realize but it does matter ime, a lot of the Centaur goodness is best heard, felt, etc., in person. And I agree with Joe Gore about where the magic starts to happen ime.

The Mythical OD does a great job imo.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:47 am

Just to add two cents:

I have a silver centaur that I bought brand new ages ago, and a first-version KTR that I bought about four years ago

Both are good pedals and I’ll happily use either. I’m sure there are other good pedals as well.

The two sound a little bit different from one another, despite using the same “magic diodes” (gag)

I tend to use them most often with the gain knob higher than many—around 1 o’clock, typically.

I’ve only tried one Klone (but not either model mentioned in this thread) and it was further from both than my two are from each other. I’ve been curious to try the ones people seem to hype most, but just never got around to it.

This is not rigorous scientific work, it must be said… just the kind of gut-feel perception that’s informed by playing probably 1500 gigs on the silver Centaur and then several hundred on the KTR, and constantly switching back and forth between the two (two rigs in use on tour with different artists)

I think the prices both command outstrip their utility value by a decent margin (especially the silver one). The silver one was slam-dunk worth it at the original $379. But at current prices, it’s a collectible, not an appliance.

I still tour with both of mine… the silver Klon on a board in a flight case that’s routinely checked as baggage or thrown onto a semi truck; the KTR on a small board that’s often wedged into my checked bag among my socks.

I’ve become very accustomed to what they do over the last 13 years or so, which is why I hang onto them. But if the silver one ever reaches $10k, I’ll learn to love something else. It’s almost absurd to tour with it as it is.

Maybe this new-diode KTR will be just fine for me; I’ll probably grab one just in case.

As with most things gear-related, everything makes a difference but almost nothing matters. Whether the Klones “sound exactly like the Klon” or not, they’re probably fine. There are also probably plenty of other overdrive pedals that will do the job.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by Maggieo » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:10 am

As Joe Gore wrote:
A circuit is a circuit. Everything else is confirmation bias.
He's not wrong. Thing is, if CB makes you a better, happier player, then why not?
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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by marqueemoon » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:42 am

So much for the KTR being the affordable version it was originally intended to be I guess.

For my purposes an Archer does the job fine. I have mulled over getting a Centura just to have part of the experience, much in same way I’d like a big stupid wedge Tone Bender MK1.

Guitar players are weirdos.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:27 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:10 am
As Joe Gore wrote:
A circuit is a circuit. Everything else is confirmation bias.
He's not wrong. Thing is, if CB makes you a better, happier player, then why not?
Well... maybe not exactly

I figure there's a reason empirically-minded engineers choose different component technologies in different applications, and why they carefully consider things like PCB layout

There are some circuits where substituting a Y class ceramic capacitor where a C0G was originally implemented will render it inoperable. I've witnessed a noisy device become a quiet one simply by adjusting the PCB layout... the physical orientation of the traces. None of this shows up on the schematic.

Is this overdrive pedal that sensitive to implementation considerations? Likely not. But the blanket statement/belief is risky, I feel.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by fuzzjunkie » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:05 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:27 pm
Maggieo wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:10 am
As Joe Gore wrote:
A circuit is a circuit. Everything else is confirmation bias.
He's not wrong. Thing is, if CB makes you a better, happier player, then why not?
Well... maybe not exactly

I figure there's a reason empirically-minded engineers choose different component technologies in different applications, and why they carefully consider things like PCB layout

There are some circuits where substituting a Y class ceramic capacitor where a C0G was originally implemented will render it inoperable. I've witnessed a noisy device become a quiet one simply by adjusting the PCB layout... the physical orientation of the traces. None of this shows up on the schematic.

Is this overdrive pedal that sensitive to implementation considerations? Likely not. But the blanket statement/belief is risky, I feel.
I have to agree. His own - well known - experiment using silicon transistors in a dozen different fuzz circuits shows this. The circuits all worked with generic transistors instead of the “mojo” transistors found in the originals, but many of them didn’t sound like the original pedals.

The experiment was to provide a level playing field to compare the different circuits, but a few of them are very dependent on transistor type, gain and leakage, that he wasn’t accounting for.

It was an interesting experiment. Some of the circuits sounded as good or better without the mojo parts. For those circuits you don’t need to go overboard finding unobtainable parts.

Others, like those based on MK-1 Tonebenders, sounded anemic because they were originally built around and biased to specific parts and substitutions results in a truly lackluster sound.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by Maggieo » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:09 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:27 pm
Maggieo wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:10 am
As Joe Gore wrote:
A circuit is a circuit. Everything else is confirmation bias.
He's not wrong. Thing is, if CB makes you a better, happier player, then why not?
Well... maybe not exactly

I figure there's a reason empirically-minded engineers choose different component technologies in different applications, and why they carefully consider things like PCB layout

There are some circuits where substituting a Y class ceramic capacitor where a C0G was originally implemented will render it inoperable. I've witnessed a noisy device become a quiet one simply by adjusting the PCB layout... the physical orientation of the traces. None of this shows up on the schematic.

Is this overdrive pedal that sensitive to implementation considerations? Likely not. But the blanket statement/belief is risky, I feel.
The Klon has been de-gooped, the components are known, they're available. Klones are easy to make. It's psychology, not physics at this point.

The originals are valued on how collectable they are now. Which makes perfect sense. Bill made something special back in the 90s and changed the landscape of pedal design. The KLON is like a Fender Broadcaster- an icon.
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:04 pm

Whether it's possible to make it "exactly the same" with different diodes is, to me, less-consequential than whether it's possible to make something pretty much just as useful.

The answer to the latter question is almost certainly "yes" (even the designer of the circuit seems to think so), so the rest is academic at best.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by s_mcsleazy » Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:47 am

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by parry » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:05 am

It's difficult to imagine any guitar music had ever been created, prior to KLON ::)
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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by rbrcbr » Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:07 am

I don't know what prompted me to look into KTR prices, but I forgot they existed and expected them to still be an attainable modern reproduction - as intended. I was not expecting them to be listed at double, triple retail.

The hype rages on, I suppose.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:11 pm

rbrcbr wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:07 am
I don't know what prompted me to look into KTR prices, but I forgot they existed and expected them to still be an attainable modern reproduction - as intended. I was not expecting them to be listed at double, triple retail.

The hype rages on, I suppose.
Magical thinking is expensive!

I've come to think it'd be silly to pay a lot of money to try a Klon. Unlike when it was made in the 1990s, any number of great overdrive pedals exist now. There's no reason to go for the Klon specifically unless you've really built a thing with it over time (I use them, but if I were starting all over today I'd choose something else).

We just live in a time when there are so many good options available. It should be trivial to find something that works. In that context, I really think there are very few good reasons to pay inflated prices for something like a pedal:
  • If it's something you've used for decades and is really a part of what you do to the extent that anything else feels like a "substitute," then that's fair.
  • If it's something that really inspired you, but is so arcane/bizarre that nobody really makes anything functionally close (e.g. Ludwig Phase II, etc) then you have little choice
  • If interacting with the oldness/rarity is itself inspiring to you (and makes your creative work feel more interesting) then I suppose there's no arguing with process
But by far the rarest is
  • the processes or materials to make something equally-good actually don't exist any longer
That's almost never true with something like a pedal, but may occasionally be true for something like a microphone or acoustic instruments.

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by ElephantDNA » Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:32 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:14 pm
According to Joe Gore, the "magic diode" that gives you "the KLON sound," isn't engaged until the gain is at, at least, 9 o'clock. Otherwise, it's a totally generic clean boost, and you might as well sell it.
UPVOTE. :-*

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Re: Klon KTR prices

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:09 pm

9 O'clock really isn't very high on the gain knob, though.

Mine tends to hover around 1 O'clock, but I realize some keep it a bit lower.

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