Does anyone actually prefer a Fuzz Face over a Big Muff?

[andy]

Do all fuzz pedals sound the same after you watch 10+ YouTube demos in a row?

A question I've asked myself for at least ten years

Honestly I've never found a fuzz that I truly loved, but then again my benchmarks for guitar players rarely include people who are big fuzz users save Gilmour, so I feel like that makes sense. Hasn't stopped me from being interested in them, but every time I get one and try to play with it in a band setting the fuzz quickly becomes the "guitar becomes inaudible" button so they never seem to last long. Muffs especially.

I have always struggled with fuzz. When I turn it on I feel so cheesy. I turn into Brian May (who I love but don't want to sound like) in a Western Swing & Soul band. I have had a few Muffs and Fuzz Faces and never been big into either. Although, if I had to choose, I would choose a Fuzz Face. Silicon, probably. I have had a Pierce Ennio Fuzz for about ten years and it is the only fuzz I have that has stood the test of time.

[jorri]

I've heard most of this.

The reverb is an Alesis Midiverb II rack unit from what I've read.

The copious doubling is one of the major points of contention though. At the time people thought it was layers upon layers of guitar, I don't know whether he actually said it was or just let people think that. In the mid 00s in several interviews Shields then claimed that each track had only maybe 2 or 3 guitar tracks max. I believe this was in the now defunct Arthur Magazine interview from 2006/2007 and another interview from one of those big Brit mags like Mojo or Q or Uncut from around 2008 when the Euro CD reissues of Loveless and Isn't Anything first appeared. Again, I would call Shields an unreliable source. Have y'all read the 331/3 book on Loveless where Mike McGonigal interviews him and quotes him on a bunch of the techniques? If not, def check it out. I swear the story even in the interviews for the book changes from day to day. I love the guy and his work but he often seems like an airhead (Shields that is)....I'd point to a 2001 era J Mascis interview on Youtube (lemme find the link) where J talks about how Kevin comes to his house to hang and play music and then basically obsesses over malted milkshakes and doesn't seem to care about playing. Pretty sure it's in here (hahahah) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ujUSGyz9M

Mic placement, room sounds, and amp volume have been constants as far as him not changing the story.

Anyway, I assume that Shields obsession is not an uncommon theme in this forum for obvious reasons.

Sounds typical sort of genius mind...hyperfocuses,gets so involved he can't refer back to how he did it, nor refer to how normal guitarists play anymore, whilst often just doing some mundane dissociative thing like then obsessing over milkshakes.

I'm not really sure how many guitars are on these tracks. Maybe that's a particular track. Or 3rhythm guitars whilst he omits mentioning he used a sampler that sounds like feedback, acoustic gtrs, lots of vocals?

But I do think still, if one were to sound like loveless it has to be all in arrangung/production rather than pedal selection. Also if you glide with open/unison tunings maybe it sounds like the guitar whatever you do.

Of course, these recordings were also a bit of a perfectionist mess. I've heard using many attempts, many studios, Coln being sick and trying to use a sampler instead, many producers until he basically took control of it and seemingly no mastering credit... And seemingly made during insomniac sessions of a nocturnal sleep cycle (possibly more than drug use) .. Of course with all that it must be hard to keep track and many will have heard about the bill the label had to face.

[peterherman]

I recall also seeing/reading something about the "reverb before distortion" sounds on MBV stuff coming from reamping tracks that already had reverb on them. Might have been an interview with Shields when he was talking about moving from solid state to tube amps or something.

[s_mcsleazy]

Do all fuzz pedals sound the same after you watch 10+ YouTube demos in a row?

i dont want to say you're right...... but you're not wrong. granted, if i had £1 for every pedal demo i looked up to see endless blooze noodling, i'd have enough money to go to their houses, kick the shit out of them and burn all their SRV albums.

i think part of the issue on youtube is 95% of the gear youtubers are trying to be big personalities because they see how much attention people like rob chapman or the other andertons guys get and think "i'll do the same" annoyingly, i feel the issue this has had on geartube (i dunno if guitar youtube has a name but i'm calling it geartube) is most of them fall into the blooze/country/classic rock style OR just metal....... i miss when shortscale had their gear demos.

[OffYourFace]

https://equipboard.com/pros/kevin-shie ... orat-pedal

Here’s a photo of his pedal board from around 1992. A Rat and Rotovibe up front, followed by some EQ and then 2 Roger Mayer “rocket ship” pedals. One is a silicon Fuzz Face, the other is an Octavia. Then the Whammy and the rest. Before the Roger Mayer Fuzz Face he had a Red Dallas Arbiter, now he uses Roger Mayer’s current versions in the square black boxes.

The black one is the early Axis Fuzz. I have one. It's not actually a fuzz face. The Axis is based on the normal fuzz ckt of the Octavia, minus the octave part. Dunlop recently released their own version. I forget what they call it.
It's better for chord note definition and a bit brighter than your typical FF ckt.

Electronically the Axis uses a discrete circuit configuration that is completely unlike the simple and crude Fuzz Face configuration. Both PNP and NPN silicon low noise transistors are used in an unique configuration that is temperature stable, free from radio interference and producing more output level and sustain than the Classic Fuzz. It produces a distinctive rich-biting sound that makes solos extremely noticeable but not thin sounding and weedy like so many popular mass marketed effects. The unit has a high input impedance to keep the guitars character and quality of tone whist providing great sustain. It is definitely best described as fuzz rather than distortion but has the ability to be used on chords as well as solos.

*** Back on topic, Re: Fuzz Faces. Play one through a non-master volume Marshall and play it in a band context. Then you'll understand why many would prefer the FF over the BM. Compare Live Hendrix to Live Dinosaur Jr. Sometimes J sounds a bit mosquito-y or wasp-y. Hendrix sounds like a Tiger... and Eric Johnson sounds like a goose

[stevejamsecono]

The black one is the early Axis Fuzz. I have one. It's not actually a fuzz face. The Axis is based on the normal fuzz ckt of the Octavia, minus the octave part. Dunlop recently released their own version. I forget what they call it.
It's better for chord note definition and a bit brighter than your typical FF ckt.

The Super Badass Variac Fuzz is what you're thinking of, I believe. I've actually been pretty interested in that one for that very reason. With the voltage cranked it seems to get into that Colorsound Overdriver "fuzzy boost" territory which I've always found quite intriguing.

[OffYourFace]

The black one is the early Axis Fuzz. I have one. It's not actually a fuzz face. The Axis is based on the normal fuzz ckt of the Octavia, minus the octave part. Dunlop recently released their own version. I forget what they call it.
It's better for chord note definition and a bit brighter than your typical FF ckt.

The Super Badass Variac Fuzz is what you're thinking of, I believe. I've actually been pretty interested in that one for that very reason. With the voltage cranked it seems to get into that Colorsound Overdriver "fuzzy boost" territory which I've always found quite intriguing.

No it's the 'Band Of Gypsys' Fuzz Face. That's their take on the Axis Fuzz

[stevejamsecono]

The black one is the early Axis Fuzz. I have one. It's not actually a fuzz face. The Axis is based on the normal fuzz ckt of the Octavia, minus the octave part. Dunlop recently released their own version. I forget what they call it.
It's better for chord note definition and a bit brighter than your typical FF ckt.

The Super Badass Variac Fuzz is what you're thinking of, I believe. I've actually been pretty interested in that one for that very reason. With the voltage cranked it seems to get into that Colorsound Overdriver "fuzzy boost" territory which I've always found quite intriguing.

No it's the 'Band Of Gypsys' Fuzz Face. That's their take on the Axis Fuzz

This one is too. I've read in a few places that the Band of Gypsies fuzz was also the basis for the Super Badass. Either way, both sound pretty cool to me.

[fuzzjunkie]

https://equipboard.com/pros/kevin-shie ... orat-pedal

Here’s a photo of his pedal board from around 1992. A Rat and Rotovibe up front, followed by some EQ and then 2 Roger Mayer “rocket ship” pedals. One is a silicon Fuzz Face, the other is an Octavia. Then the Whammy and the rest. Before the Roger Mayer Fuzz Face he had a Red Dallas Arbiter, now he uses Roger Mayer’s current versions in the square black boxes.

The black one is the early Axis Fuzz. I have one. It's not actually a fuzz face. The Axis is based on the normal fuzz ckt of the Octavia, minus the octave part. Dunlop recently released their own version. I forget what they call it.
It's better for chord note definition and a bit brighter than your typical FF ckt.

Electronically the Axis uses a discrete circuit configuration that is completely unlike the simple and crude Fuzz Face configuration. Both PNP and NPN silicon low noise transistors are used in an unique configuration that is temperature stable, free from radio interference and producing more output level and sustain than the Classic Fuzz. It produces a distinctive rich-biting sound that makes solos extremely noticeable but not thin sounding and weedy like so many popular mass marketed effects. The unit has a high input impedance to keep the guitars character and quality of tone whist providing great sustain. It is definitely best described as fuzz rather than distortion but has the ability to be used on chords as well as solos.

*** Back on topic, Re: Fuzz Faces. Play one through a non-master volume Marshall and play it in a band context. Then you'll understand why many would prefer the FF over the BM. Compare Live Hendrix to Live Dinosaur Jr. Sometimes J sounds a bit mosquito-y or wasp-y. Hendrix sounds like a Tiger... and Eric Johnson sounds like a goose

Ok. Yes, there was a forum member years ago that said he was the roadie for MBV. Evilzone? Something like that. He said Kevin had an Axis and a Guv’nor, but never a Shredmaster. I think he said he used another Roger Mayer pedal too, the Mongoose, which is based off a Rat and a Stone fuzz, which is supposed to be a different modded version of the Fuzz Face.

I always thought the Axis was a silicon Fuzz Face, with improvements made by Mayer to boost the output and limit radio interference. I didn’t know he had a hybrid germanium/silicon circuit in there. I also didn’t know it was based off the Octavia, which seems strange, because that circuit isn’t very fuzzy on its own.

Mayer’s not overly protective of his circuits, but he does have esoteric descriptions of them to cloud exactly what they are.

Like the 90s Coloursound big box Tonebender has a Distortion + circuit with a Big Muff tone control, nothing like the vintage Supa or Jumbo circuits that were in that case in the 70s.

[VPO]

Yep, I love to use my Fuzz Face clone.

[OffYourFace]

Ok. Yes, there was a forum member years ago that said he was the roadie for MBV. Evilzone? Something like that. He said Kevin had an Axis and a Guv’nor, but never a Shredmaster. I think he said he used another Roger Mayer pedal too, the Mongoose, which is based off a Rat and a Stone fuzz, which is supposed to be a different modded version of the Fuzz Face.

I always thought the Axis was a silicon Fuzz Face, with improvements made by Mayer to boost the output and limit radio interference. I didn’t know he had a hybrid germanium/silicon circuit in there. I also didn’t know it was based off the Octavia, which seems strange, because that circuit isn’t very fuzzy on its own.

Yeah he used a Mongoose sometimes. The original black spaceship Axis and the newer Mongoose X were seen in his post-reunion pedal chain.
Remember the Fulltone Octafuzz? It has a switch to bypass the octave effect and it seemed pretty fuzzy to me. Not sure if it's the same ckt as the Roger Mayer ckt though....

The Stone Fuzz didn't come out until late 90s or early 2000s. I bought one when they came out. I remember being disappointed by it. It's like a cross between a fuzz face and a octavia. More articulate and chord friendly than an Octavia but not clear and defined like a good FF.

RE: BM vs FF, at some point I switched from having several FF pedals to having several BM pedals. I now just have one of each. I like both.

My FF is one I built myself. It's a silicon model with high gain BC109s and I tuned it myself by slightly changing some resistor values. I used a Pigeon FX pcb and a classic Red Dunlop enclosure. I love it. I based it on an old Crest Audio version I regretted selling.

My BM is a Tym Big Mudd Reverse Graphic. It's supposed to be based on a V6 muff but I've never heard a V6 this good. It sounds very close to my old Ram's Head that I sold but the Tym has a slight mid bump that helps it cut through.

[BoringPostcards]

I find them very different from each other, and thus have different uses. For soloing I prefer the sustain of a Muff, and it's better for power chord riffs and heavier stuff than a fuzz face.
Fuzz faces are better for full chords and 'gritty jangle' stuff. They're still really good for some lead as well, but they don't have that long sustain of a Muff.

I love both styles of fuzz. Both can be starved to get crazier sounds as well. Some cool pedals have been made with the Muff circuit as a base.
I like what builders like Aen did with his Great Destroyer and Shiva designs. Too bad Dwarfcraft recently shut down their business.

[jorri]

https://equipboard.com/pros/kevin-shie ... orat-pedal

Ok. Yes, there was a forum member years ago that said he was the roadie for MBV. Evilzone? Something like that. He said Kevin had an Axis and a Guv’nor, but never a Shredmaster. I think he said he used another Roger Mayer pedal too, the Mongoose, which is based off a Rat and a Stone fuzz, which is supposed to be a different modded version of the Fuzz Face.

A guv'nor? Well that might just show its not a shoegaze-in-a-box pedal. i tried one of those (or an identical drivemaster) and it may have been the worst drive pedal i've tried, but presumably there is a way to use it better such as pushing a valve Marshall to extremes..

here was me thinking it was all HM-2 and a tonebender. Its quite possible the HM-2 was pre-loveless or even back on the earliest EPs before their sound was really honed but i remember this was most associated with him, and its not been mentioned. I think that's more in line with a shin-ei companion style tone but never tried the former. And the tonebender? not sure its a recent addition.

[Pacafeliz]

Ok took it to rehearsal the other day to play it really loud, with the ole DiMarzio-loaded Guild = LOVE

I was surprised that I had to turn up the FF volume almost all the way, otherwise there was a huge volume drop. And yes, pushed with the old SD-1 it really ROARED.

Left it at the rehearsal space, gonna keep playing around with it. Yes it's not lush and creamy like a BM but it has its own sound, which is cool and original.

[sholkham]

Ok took it to rehearsal the other day to play it really loud, with the ole DiMarzio-loaded Guild = LOVE

I was surprised that I had to turn up the FF volume almost all the way, otherwise there was a huge volume drop. And yes, pushed with the old SD-1 it really ROARED.

Left it at the rehearsal space, gonna keep playing around with it. Yes it's not lush and creamy like a BM but it has its own sound, which is cool and original.

nice, was that SD1 before or after the FF?