Garnet Herzog?

Everyone needs a stompbox.
User avatar
i love sharin foo
Mods
Mods
Posts: 5650
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:26 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by i love sharin foo » Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:26 am

hulakatt wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:17 am
Hey, they can't all be wired up like a HiWatt!
:D
The whispers cut like hard rain, Like sugar in a hurricane

User avatar
fuzzjunkie
Expat
Expat
Posts: 7277
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:32 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:41 am

This looks like a predecessor of the pre-amp into power-amp setups that were popular in the late ‘80s early ’90s


I think a number of late ‘60s early ‘70s British guitarists experimented with jumping the preamp from one amp into the input of a second amp? Townsend and Page come to mind. I think Hendrix and maybe Mick Ronson did something similar too? Beck and Page were always chasing more volume and sustain.

The Herzog is a specific, relatively rare example of the process, and it seems to give a distinctive sound, but I don’t think it’s revolutionary.

Mesa Boogie and Marshall both had popular preamp into power amp systems, and not just for heavy sustain and crunch sounds. Robin Guthrie, Andy Summers and a few Jazz players employed them.

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by hulakatt » Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:06 am

fuzzjunkie wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:41 am
This looks like a predecessor of the pre-amp into power-amp setups that were popular in the late ‘80s early ’90s


I think a number of late ‘60s early ‘70s British guitarists experimented with jumping the preamp from one amp into the input of a second amp? Townsend and Page come to mind. I think Hendrix and maybe Mick Ronson did something similar too? Beck and Page were always chasing more volume and sustain.

The Herzog is a specific, relatively rare example of the process, and it seems to give a distinctive sound, but I don’t think it’s revolutionary.

Mesa Boogie and Marshall both had popular preamp into power amp systems, and not just for heavy sustain and crunch sounds. Robin Guthrie, Andy Summers and a few Jazz players employed them.
Remember, these were first designed and built in the late 60's. I think, at that time, it was more revolutionary than it is today.

I remember reading interviews with Clapton and Harrison trying to run modded BF/SF Champs in to the front ends of Dual Showman amps trying to get that raging small amp sound at stage volumes. Delany used to mod them and gave them as gifts to Clapton, Harrison, Page and possibly Townsend by upping the output tube to a 6L6 and squeezing in a 10" Lansing speaker by his own admission. Clapton used to run the Tone knobs all the way down and max out the volume to control the amp from his guitars Vol knob. Supposedly that was his main setup from Delany, Bonnie and Friends through a lot of his solo stuff.
She/Her

User avatar
CorporateDisguise
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:56 am
Location: NY

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by CorporateDisguise » Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:44 pm

hulakatt wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:06 am
fuzzjunkie wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:41 am
This looks like a predecessor of the pre-amp into power-amp setups that were popular in the late ‘80s early ’90s


I think a number of late ‘60s early ‘70s British guitarists experimented with jumping the preamp from one amp into the input of a second amp? Townsend and Page come to mind. I think Hendrix and maybe Mick Ronson did something similar too? Beck and Page were always chasing more volume and sustain.

The Herzog is a specific, relatively rare example of the process, and it seems to give a distinctive sound, but I don’t think it’s revolutionary.

Mesa Boogie and Marshall both had popular preamp into power amp systems, and not just for heavy sustain and crunch sounds. Robin Guthrie, Andy Summers and a few Jazz players employed them.
Remember, these were first designed and built in the late 60's. I think, at that time, it was more revolutionary than it is today.

I remember reading interviews with Clapton and Harrison trying to run modded BF/SF Champs in to the front ends of Dual Showman amps trying to get that raging small amp sound at stage volumes. Delany used to mod them and gave them as gifts to Clapton, Harrison, Page and possibly Townsend by upping the output tube to a 6L6 and squeezing in a 10" Lansing speaker by his own admission. Clapton used to run the Tone knobs all the way down and max out the volume to control the amp from his guitars Vol knob. Supposedly that was his main setup from Delany, Bonnie and Friends through a lot of his solo stuff.

I remember reading something similar, but it was one of the guys from The Guess Who. Apparently he plugged a tweed champs speaker output into the input of his twin. It would work for a little while, but he kept blowing up the amps. I think this is how he got that super thick sustaining lead on American Woman.


Edit;
I found the source. It’s from the Tube Amp Handbook. It was Randy Bachman who approached Gar after blowing up a few amps.

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by hulakatt » Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:47 pm

CorporateDisguise wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:44 pm
I remember reading something similar, but it was one of the guys from The Guess Who. Apparently he plugged a tweed champs speaker output into the input of his twin. It would work for a little while, but he kept blowing up the amps. I think this is how he got that super thick sustaining lead on American Woman.


Edit;
I found the source. It’s from the Tube Amp Handbook. It was Randy Bachman who approached Gar after blowing up a few amps.
Yep. And this is how the Herzog came to be! It was Gar's answer to get Bachman that same tone and response without destroying everything constantly.
She/Her

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by hulakatt » Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:20 am

So it shipped last week and was supposed to be here on weds but disappeared from FedEx's radar in Nashville. Stressed me the fuck out as I'm leaving town for awhile tomorrow and I didn't want it sent back but it just showed up today!

Sounds like a massive and gained up tweed Champ which, of course, is awesome. Huge and chunky with my LP Jr but pretty smooth OD to light fuzz with my JM. Will continue to play around with it.

Image

Image
She/Her

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 12435
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:28 am

That is a beautiful little amp!! What cab are you using it with?
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by hulakatt » Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:23 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:28 am
That is a beautiful little amp!! What cab are you using it with?
Running it as a tube preamp/overdrive/fuzz into my '66 Bassman into the matching 2x12 w/Golds. Haven't tried it as a stand alone amp yet.
She/Her

User avatar
August
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by August » Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:08 pm

That is fricking sweet. I need to get myself one of these someday.

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by hulakatt » Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:02 am

I figured that the guy building them started building them in the 60/70's and probably won't continue for too many more years so no time like the present! When he's done, I'm sure it'll be limited to the ones already out in the world, some DIYs and maybe some boutique builder but probably not.
She/Her

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 12435
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:23 am

hulakatt wrote:
Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:23 pm
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:28 am
That is a beautiful little amp!! What cab are you using it with?
Running it as a tube preamp/overdrive/fuzz into my '66 Bassman into the matching 2x12 w/Golds. Haven't tried it as a stand alone amp yet.
Nice! Both sound like awesome ways to run it, but I'm definitely curious about how it sounds/if it sounds different running through a cab.
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8804
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by JSett » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:25 pm

How's this working out for you Hulakatt? Still using it or did the novelty wear off pretty quick? I'm still debating possibly getting one in the new year
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
hulakatt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by hulakatt » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:41 pm

I haven't used it as much as I'd like to. It's still really too cool and it still sounds great to me but I've mostly been using it in front of my jtm45. Funny, I still haven't run it into my only actual Garnet amp! I'm looking through gear and getting ready to sell a bunch but not the Herzog.
She/Her

User avatar
Nevets
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Garnet Herzog?

Post by Nevets » Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:45 am

Randy Bachman's old Herzog is up for sale on the local Facebook Marketplace. Only $4800 cdn.

Post Reply