Recommend me a new production 12AX7
- therizzla
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Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I fear that with the possibility of another Trump presidency that his new proposed tariffs could drive up the prices on new tubes. I've already picked out which 6L6 tubes (Tube Store Preferred Series 6L6WGC) and 12AT7 tubes (NOS JAN-Philips) but I'm still undecided on 12AX7/7025s for my Twin Reverb. Tung-Sol seems very popular but I've read a lot of reviews with high failure rates.
Suggestions?
Suggestions?
reverb.
- jimboyogi
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I’m liking the JJ E83CC version best of the ones I have tried. Admittedly a small sample.
Lower background noise than either the current production Tung Sol or Mullard samples I have. Therefore a good option for first gain stage.
Hopefully someone who has much bigger sample sizes will give their opinions!
Lower background noise than either the current production Tung Sol or Mullard samples I have. Therefore a good option for first gain stage.
Hopefully someone who has much bigger sample sizes will give their opinions!
- JSett
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I love old preamp tubes, and have them in everything I own, but I can still honestly say I like the sound of regular old JJ's. They're consistently predictable and acceptable sounding, and I definitely have a bias towards liking things that can be reliable even if they're not the prettiest example.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- Dr Tony Balls
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
Suggestion: JJs
Rationale: They're fine!
Rationale: They're fine!
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- therizzla
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
Thanks for the responses so far! I'm definitely more concerned with durability but I may as well hear thoughts on tone too while I'm asking. My Twin had EH 12AX7s when I got it and I put a 70's Fender labeled 12AX7 from a PA100 in the V2 but I didn't really notice a tone change.
reverb.
- MrSparkle
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
Honest question from me. I used to read that EHX ECC83 were based on 6N2P, not the original US design and suffered because of the lower cathode to heater voltage on the Soviet specsheet.therizzla wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:57 pmThanks for the responses so far! I'm definitely more concerned with durability but I may as well hear thoughts on tone too while I'm asking. My Twin had EH 12AX7s when I got it and I put a 70's Fender labeled 12AX7 from a PA100 in the V2 but I didn't really notice a tone change.
Still true? Formerly true? Completely apocryphal russophobic trash talk?
- Nudger
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
Had a couple of 12AX7 TS in my twin for a fiew years no problem, I prefer the sound compared to the fender ones (but they were old)..
Had a TS GC-STR fail after leaving my amp on overnight
- therizzla
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I'm liking what I've read about these E83CCs, I'm torn between them and the Tung-sols now so I'll probably get both.
No clue but that would be interesting to know. I wonder if that has something to do with all the things I've read about Russian 12AX7s not doing well in a cathode follower position (not that that applies to retubing my Twin).
Last edited by therizzla on Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
reverb.
- JackFawkes
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I certainly don't purport to be anything resembling an expert on this subject; but I am a science-driven nerd that also happens to be enthusiastic about thermionic valves. I do not believe most of the mystical mumbo-jumbo that many of the cork sniffers and tube enthusiasts on the interwebs parrot and subscribe to. I just think they're neat, and just one of a few slightly different sounding ways to amplify an audio signal. That said, here are my personal, anecdotal experiences from my uncontrolled, shoebox-sized sampling of (mostly) vintage and (some) modern tubes...
First off, preamp tubes tend to last longer than power tubes. Much much longer. Statistically, as long as a preamp tube survives past its first 100 hours or so, it'll likely last several thousands more. But yes, some Russian-made 9-pin dual-triodes are specifically known to die quickly in cathode follower positions.
Second, aside from one microphonic old 5751, I've never heard a "bad" sounding tube... and even that 5751 sounded good when it wasn't actively ringing/squealing. I do find that tubes made by different manufacturers do sound slightly different; but most of the time it's pretty darn slight... really only noticeable in controlled listening conditions with no other variables. A slight tweak of an EQ here or there can typically compensate, and in a full mix or live band situation it's nearly impossible to hear any difference.
Interestingly, to my ear, the JJ's 12AX7s I've heard make some of the most noticeable change in sound compared to every other 12AX7 I've heard. In my opinion they have a slightly "dark" or "veiled" sound; basically acting like a slight low-pass filter, rolling off a little high-end. Nothing that can't be "fixed" by turning up the treble a notch or two, but more noticeable than any other single tube manufacturer I've "heard". Aside from that tiny quirk, the general quality, reliability, and detail are all good on them; a good tube for sure.
That's it. That's all I was gonna say since it looked like JJ was the clear leader in recommendations; I just wanted to share that small casual observation.
Jack
P.S.: The only other tubes I've heard that really roll off a perceptible amount of highs like a JJ are RFTs. Aside from that, the other slight difference that RFT 12AX7s tend to have compared to most others is that they seem to have a bit less overall "headroom" and go into non-linear "break up" sooner than most; a good trick if you like the sound of preamp tube distortion.
First off, preamp tubes tend to last longer than power tubes. Much much longer. Statistically, as long as a preamp tube survives past its first 100 hours or so, it'll likely last several thousands more. But yes, some Russian-made 9-pin dual-triodes are specifically known to die quickly in cathode follower positions.
Second, aside from one microphonic old 5751, I've never heard a "bad" sounding tube... and even that 5751 sounded good when it wasn't actively ringing/squealing. I do find that tubes made by different manufacturers do sound slightly different; but most of the time it's pretty darn slight... really only noticeable in controlled listening conditions with no other variables. A slight tweak of an EQ here or there can typically compensate, and in a full mix or live band situation it's nearly impossible to hear any difference.
Interestingly, to my ear, the JJ's 12AX7s I've heard make some of the most noticeable change in sound compared to every other 12AX7 I've heard. In my opinion they have a slightly "dark" or "veiled" sound; basically acting like a slight low-pass filter, rolling off a little high-end. Nothing that can't be "fixed" by turning up the treble a notch or two, but more noticeable than any other single tube manufacturer I've "heard". Aside from that tiny quirk, the general quality, reliability, and detail are all good on them; a good tube for sure.
That's it. That's all I was gonna say since it looked like JJ was the clear leader in recommendations; I just wanted to share that small casual observation.
Jack
P.S.: The only other tubes I've heard that really roll off a perceptible amount of highs like a JJ are RFTs. Aside from that, the other slight difference that RFT 12AX7s tend to have compared to most others is that they seem to have a bit less overall "headroom" and go into non-linear "break up" sooner than most; a good trick if you like the sound of preamp tube distortion.
- OffYourFace
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I go thru a LOT of JJs at work. Get them from Magic Parts. I feel like Ruby does a better job at selecting good JJs from their batches.
I've had a few bad ones right out of the box from CE/AES but they do have good customer service when I've needed it.
I've had a few bad ones right out of the box from CE/AES but they do have good customer service when I've needed it.
- longtortoise
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I don't have a recommendation but in looking for EL84s I learned that there are many ebay sellers for old Soviet 6P14P tubes that many people find to sound better and last much longer then modern EL84s. They're cheap, too! I wonder if there's a similar 12AX7 equivalent.
- longtortoise
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
Brief googling tells me the 6N2P works well to replace a 12AX7 but requires an adapter or re-wiring the socket. Does anyone have experience with these?longtortoise wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 10:58 amI don't have a recommendation but in looking for EL84s I learned that there are many ebay sellers for old Soviet 6P14P tubes that many people find to sound better and last much longer then modern EL84s. They're cheap, too! I wonder if there's a similar 12AX7 equivalent.
- MrSparkle
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
longtortoise wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 11:32 amBrief googling tells me the 6N2P works well to replace a 12AX7 but requires an adapter or re-wiring the socket. Does anyone have experience with these?
I've come across one or two.
Answer to that is a little more complex than just "yes and no". There's two major models. 6Н2П and 6Н2П-ЕВ. The 6Н2П is the equivalent of the 12AX7, and the 6Н2П-ЕВ is the "military version", functionally a 7025. The pinout change is only in the heater - a pin used for the shield in the 6Н2П is used as a centre-point in the heater in the 12AX7 (in order to allow it to run in either 6.3 or 12.6V mode).
But there's a major spec difference in the VHK; which means that 6Н2П are technically below spec for some positions in traditional guitar amp designs, which tend to run 12AX7 at their VHK limit.
Functionally, the two 6Н2П's are the same. Most people recommend the ЕВ for guitar amp use over the 6Н2П, but as usual there's dissenters. Realistically the PI is maybe not the best place for them, but you'll probably be fine - especially if you get the milspec variant (or the secret extra-mil-spec variant I didn't mention).
I bought my box full for about €2 each. After ... "2022", and after they got talked about a bit more - they're going for upwards of €25 each.
Last edited by MrSparkle on Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- JackFawkes
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
I've played with substituting 6P14P -K and -EV tubes for EL84, subbing 6P6S for 6V6(GT), and 6P3S for 6L6(B), but have never had an opportunity to try an adapted 6N2P in place of a 12AX7... always been curious about it too though!longtortoise wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 11:32 amBrief googling tells me the 6N2P works well to replace a 12AX7 but requires an adapter or re-wiring the socket. Does anyone have experience with these?longtortoise wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 10:58 amI don't have a recommendation but in looking for EL84s I learned that there are many ebay sellers for old Soviet 6P14P tubes that many people find to sound better and last much longer then modern EL84s. They're cheap, too! I wonder if there's a similar 12AX7 equivalent.
- longtortoise
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Re: Recommend me a new production 12AX7
MrSparkle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:27 pmlongtortoise wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 11:32 amBrief googling tells me the 6N2P works well to replace a 12AX7 but requires an adapter or re-wiring the socket. Does anyone have experience with these?
I've come across one or two.
Answer to that is a little more complex than just "yes and no". There's two major models. 6Н2П and 6Н2П-ЕВ. The 6Н2П is the equivalent of the 12AX7, and the 6Н2П-ЕВ is the "military version", functionally a 7025. The pinout change is only in the heater - a pin used for the shield in the 6Н2П is used as a centre-point in the heater in the 12AX7 (in order to allow it to run in either 6.3 or 12.6V mode).
But there's a major spec difference in the VHK; which means that 6Н2П are technically below spec for some positions in traditional guitar amp designs, which tend to run 12AX7 at their VHK limit.
Functionally, the two 6Н2П's are the same. Most people recommend the ЕВ for guitar amp use over the 6Н2П, but as usual there's dissenters. Realistically the PI is maybe not the best place for them, but you'll probably be fine - especially if you get the milspec variant (or the secret extra-mil-spec variant I didn't mention).
I bought my box full for about €2 each. After ... "2022", and after they got talked about a bit more - they're going for upwards of €25 each.
Great information, thanks! We must know...what is the secret variant?