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I feel like this is a loaded question around here because we're clearly a very pedal-friendly forum, but I figured it merited the ask. Do any of you guys use amp gain regularly, and if so, what kind of amps ya got and how are you using 'em?

Ever since I got to make a record with a dimed Super Lead I've been chasing some variation of cranked amp tone in my gigging life. This has led to a few compromise solutions (i..e low wattage amps, lunchbox heads with master volumes, etc.) and varying degrees of success. When it works, I've got a nice fierce-but-nuanced 70s rock sound in the vein of James Honeyman-Scott or Neil Giraldo. When it doesn't, it's inaudible mush city. Right now I've got a few Victory heads (RK50, Countess Mk2, most recently a Sheriff 22) and although they all do various things well, none of them do THE thing quite the way I want. I'm seriously considering pulling the trigger on a Friedman and calling it a day.

How about all of you?

Aside from a short stint with a Blackstar HT Dual pedal (more of a preamp I guess) as we were using amps provided as backline and I wanted a consistent sound; I’ve always been more of an amp gain kinda guy.
My first real tube amp was a Blackstar HT100 Metal, after which I moved to a Egnater Tourmaster and a Vox NT50 mkii. The last amp I used for quite a while was a Marshall JCM2000 DSL100.
Everything got sold off when I bought a Kemper; on which I still use profiles of overdriven amps instead of any overdrive pedals (be it built in or outboard). My go to sounds are a Rockerverb, Morgan AC20 and a Super Lead.
Amp gain just feels more natural than any pedal ever did to me.

Lately the amp bug has been itching again though. I’d love a plug and play setup like an AC15 and I’ve also started to covet a Super Lead as well. Maybe I should finally start that amp build I’ve been pondering…

eww don't get a friedman. hairy brown eye? pink taco? fuck that

If you want a great Marshall-like head get a Suhr SL67 or a Bray 4550
Bray loses a few points for calling their PPIMV the 'wife knob' but def not as gross as friedman
Both are very expensive.

I'd look for a pre-made kit amp like a Mojotone with a LarMar PPIMV. or see if someone will build you a kit from valvestorm

Mostly I‘m a Fender amp user with Fuzz and reverb (and all the other effects) in front.
I tried them all dimed. The Bandmaster and Bassman really shine (but are also terribly loud.

My Supersonic has a pretty neat „burn“ channel. But as it multiplies the reverb (when in front) it‘s not really useful for me atm.
Loved the Crunch Settings from the Vox AC100 CPH (that I borrowed for a few weeks).
I‘m not much of a Marshall guy. I don‘t like the classic JCM aesthetics (and sounds) - but they probably get the job done.
The older models JTM45/Super Lead would be more pleasing for me (Jimi!).

Have you tried the Studio Vintage 20 H (low(er) wattage Plexi?) A befriended guitarist had one for his new 70s Heavy Metal band (but I think he switched to something bigger!) - or a Mesa Boogie Studio 22? They are pretty versatile with the built in Reverb.

I own a Vibro Champ Reverb and an AD-5.

The VCR has a super fat natural breakup which sounds great but needs way more volume than I can get away with in my flat.
The AD-5 starts breaking up almost instantly if you have hot pickups and that is at slightly less neighbour-worrying volumes. When I get an attenuator I’ll be using it a lot more, but at the moment the fender gets most of the play time and stays very clean until a fuzz pedal comes on.

I don’t own an amp with a master volume, so currently my answer is “never”.

I wouldn’t rule it out in the future, but yeah.

Complex answer because since I changed the tubes in my HRD I do use the More Drive channel at gigs and rehearsals, however due to the tubes I used it's basically now a clean channel, just one with a master volume on it now due to the gain difference (ECC82s rather than ECC83s, gain of 20 versus 100 so it dropped the preamp volume a lot). The regular clean is now even quieter for home/recording use. It's a ridiculously loud amp for it's size and that's great if you're playing 1,000+ capacity venues every night but for the rest of us, either change the tubes, use a Hot Plate or both. My Laneys are always run on the clean channels as well, and the Orange Micro Terror the gain is on about 9 o'clock so again, clean. The latter actually does sound pretty decent with the gain up but due to having multiple amps I can't use it that way.

So basically no, it's all pedals for gain into clean amps, which is what I voted.

In my experience, the amps with the best driven tones either sacrifice cleans, or you sacrifice the cleans by cranking it up because it sounds better that way - old Marshall JMPs spring to mind. And vice versa - Fender amps usually have class-leading cleans and verbs, but crappy drive channels, I've owned enough to notice and yes that includes my HRD before I tried various tube combinations in it.

I've been going back and forth between amp and pedal gain as my main sound lately, and due to a couple of pedal mishaps at our last gig I'm leaning more and more towards relying on amp gain.
The main thing holding me back is the dynamics. When using 2 overdrive pedals to get my sounds, I can have the lead and rhythm sounds equally saturated, just with slightly different volume and tone settings. But when using amp gain as the base sound and adding a pedal as lead boost, the louder sound is noticeably dirtier as well. I don't want my sound to be too dirty, so the "rhythm" sound has to be quite clean, basically just a hair over the edge of breakup. It sounds great, but it puts more pressure on my performance (which I guess is a good thing in the long run).
My amp is a the same Ceriatone DR103 I've had since 2008, that I've modded to OL specs (one extra gain stage) plus a bunch of small tweaks. I don't need to crank it to get the sound I like, so it's really versatile for varying gig scenarios. I just turn down the master volume if the sound guy complains, and my sound is still there.

mynameisjonas wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 4:26 am

The main thing holding me back is the dynamics. When using 2 overdrive pedals to get my sounds, I can have the lead and rhythm sounds equally saturated, just with slightly different volume and tone settings. But when using amp gain as the base sound and adding a pedal as lead boost, the louder sound is noticeably dirtier as well. I don't want my sound to be too dirty, so the "rhythm" sound has to be quite clean, basically just a hair over the edge of breakup. It sounds great, but it puts more pressure on my performance (which I guess is a good thing in the long run).

A GE7 in the effects loop has been the key to unlocking this for me. It keeps the core sound the same, just adds a bit of juice from the power section. Having the ability to dial in the frequencies a bit also helps that sound pop a little too. I imagine your amp doesn't have a loop, though?

Unfortunately it doesn't, but yeah that would have been a great solution.
I've toyed with the idea of wiring in a jack between the master volume and ground, and putting an additional volume pot on a pedal, basically creating a master volume boost. But I'm not sure how well that would work, having a long run of cable that's always in the circuit might cause noise issues or affect the sound in some way.

.

With my band I just use my Ballsmom (Bassman) set just over gritty as my main tone. For choruses or bigger parts it gets a subtle boost with a BD-2, that's it. At home I just replicate that with a Timmy and MXR Micro Amp for 90% of my playing.

So, yeah, all the time.

crazyzeke wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 11:48 am

mynameisjonas wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 6:44 am

Unfortunately it doesn't, but yeah that would have been a great solution.

Change V1 (an ECC83 aka 12AX7) and/or the phase inverter to an ECC82 (12AU7), or just do all the preamp tubes depending on how much you want to dial back the volume.

Sorry, I think you missed my initial post. I have no need to dial back either the volume or the gain of my amp, I can get it to sound exactly like I want at any volume level ranging from "bedroom" to "blow your head off".
The thing I'm trying to achieve is what I've been doing with two identical overdrive pedals; having pretty much the exact same sound but at two different volume levels. If the amp had an effects loop I could add a pedal to boost or cut the signal before the master volume, but since it doesn't have one, I'm left with boosting the signal before the input, which also increases the saturation.

When recording I certainly do. I have a Suhr RLIR so I can get my amps to sweat without getting served divorce papers. Live, I’d say I do half the time. I’m fortunate to be playing originals in dedicated music spaces and I can get away with some volume. These days the live rig is a 1970 Bandmaster into either a 2x10 with 10a125s or a 4x10 with mojotone anthems. I turn it up to 5 and usually play a WRHB equipped Jazzmaster or the one with a P90 in the bridge. It is breaking up at that volume. If I know I’m playing a place where volume is a concern I trade out the bandmaster for my Mesa Mark I reissue head. I plug into the cascaded gain input and keep it fairly low (4 on input 1 and 3 on input 2). So breaking up but not full on. And sometimes if we are practicing in the drummer’s basement I take my 5E3. Space is at a premium down there because he’s in 5 bands and there’s lots of other amps and stuff crowded in there. The 5E3 doesn’t do band volume clean so it’s really sweating when I use it.

I will say that if I get caught playing a place where I can’t turn up and I don’t know that ahead of time it’s a bit of a compromise. But that’s when the pedals save the day.

Yes.
It’s the whole reason for having an Orange, that square wave breakup sound.
I just need it.