A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

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sal paradise
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by sal paradise » Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:34 pm

blacktiger wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:27 pm
øøøøøøø wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:27 am
Concurring with the others here--a small Marshall combo is probably not the ideal amp to get what you're after.

For Cocteau Twins clean, the Roland JC recommendation is solid.

For Swervedriver-style distortion sounds that wouldn't get you very close to the mark, but maybe that's okay... it'd be hard to find one amp that did both of those things truly well (unless you went for a Kemper-style convolution-based solution--which could be a great shout if in the budget, incidentally).

Do you like how your little Marshall sounds distorted? If so, would it be possible to keep it and add a Roland JC90 (or similar) for cleans?

If this is mostly for playing at home, two different amps is great. If you're looking for something to use in performance, that quickly becomes less-practical.
Based on everything I’ve read about these amps, it probably is my problem, unfortunately. I don’t really crank it enough to get amp break-up. Even on the low power setting, that gets plenty loud. I like the sound straight in, but if I’m honest with myself, it doesn’t really take effects well. I’ve been playing Jazzmasters with the tone on 10 for decades, so I’m clearly not scared of bright sounds, and to a certain extent, I think I’ve always equated “bright” with “clear,” but with this set-up I’m definitely getting some bright mud. In a way, it’s all academic because when/if I do home recordings, it’ll be direct, probably through an amp sim pedal, and I don’t play out. This is really just about the sound I’m hearing when I’m dicking around alone. It’s probably time to give up on the idea of having a Marshall (I grew up on Hendrix and punk rock, so that sound - or the idea of it - is really ingrained in me) and get something that actually gives me the sound I want.
Keep the Marshall: buy an attenuator & a Les Paul 8)

Oh, and have you tried a tubescreamer as a boost?
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by whitewatersky » Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:40 pm

not that these really help, this thread got me thinking about this old rig rundown...

Image

and another more recent story:
https://noisegate.com.au/my-gear-adam-f ... rvedriver/

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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:53 pm

Side note: I always used to LOVE those rig rundown drawings from guitar magazines! The ones that look just like that are so cool 8)
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by sal paradise » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:20 pm

JM>HM2>JCM800

That’s a recipe for the silly tones that those doom kiddies love, playing in drop A or whatever ;D
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by Zork » Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:23 am

Have you considered a Laney from the 90s? I've got a LH50R head and a VC30 2x10" combo and both amps have both very clean and sparkly cleans and solid rock tones for the Swervedriver distortion sounds. These amps tend to be on the jangly side in both channels compared to Marshalls but should still work well with a Jazzmaster (I don't have one) as they are quite balanced. There are 15Watt combos in that series, too, afaik.

Those Laneys are very underrated imho and I think it's because they don't do the bell-like cleans of a Fender and also not the midheavy rock thing of the Marshalls. People seem to be unsure what to do with them. I find them to be quite neutral or - to use a more positive word - "transparent". They put out the sound of your guitar pretty much without adding a lot of an own "unique character" or something. And that's what I really like a lot about them.

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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by sal paradise » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:04 am

Zork wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:23 am
Have you considered a Laney from the 90s? I've got a LH50R head and a VC30 2x10" combo and both amps have both very clean and sparkly cleans and solid rock tones for the Swervedriver distortion sounds. These amps tend to be on the jangly side in both channels compared to Marshalls but should still work well with a Jazzmaster (I don't have one) as they are quite balanced. There are 15Watt combos in that series, too, afaik.

Those Laneys are very underrated imho and I think it's because they don't do the bell-like cleans of a Fender and also not the midheavy rock thing of the Marshalls. People seem to be unsure what to do with them. I find them to be quite neutral or - to use a more positive word - "transparent". They put out the sound of your guitar pretty much without adding a lot of an own "unique character" or something. And that's what I really like a lot about them.
VC15 2x10 is an amazing amp. I used one for about a year in 2000/2001. Sold it to buy a high-gain head* :fp:

I don’t remember the clean being too jangly, and think it had 3-way eq?

The drive is definitely Marshall territory.

*imagine me at 18, playing in a 60s style semi-covers band, using a Jagstang, wearing a NOFX T-shirt. It was a confusing time for me.
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by blacktiger » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:30 am

sal paradise wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:34 pm
Keep the Marshall: buy an attenuator & a Les Paul 8)

Oh, and have you tried a tubescreamer as a boost?
I certainly have a habit of buying ridiculous gear that I can’t use. In the early ‘00s, I bought a ‘70s Super Lead. Keep in mind that I was living in an apartment and not playing in a band then, either. I came to my senses and sold it on before I even bought a cab.

I did briefly own an Orville LP goldtop. Again, it did not suit me in the least. I have considered an SG, as I had/have a particular love of DC hardcore, and the SG was the official guitar of harDCore, but I’m still tethered to reality enough to know that wouldn’t suit the kind of music that I actually play.
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by blacktiger » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:35 am

whitewatersky wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:40 pm
not that these really help, this thread got me thinking about this old rig rundown...

Image

and another more recent story:
https://noisegate.com.au/my-gear-adam-f ... rvedriver/
Adam is the main reason I’ve stuck with Jazzmasters. I think he still mainly plays the AC30/Marshall 50 watt combo in the studio, but live, he plays through a Matchless combo these days. Those are definitely too expensive for me, but a more affordable Vox or Bad Cat might put me in that area tonally.
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by Zork » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:51 am

sal paradise wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:04 am
The drive is definitely Marshall territory.
It is but I feel it has less of that mid honk and is less compressed.
sal paradise wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:04 am
*imagine me at 18, playing in a 60s style semi-covers band, using a Jagstang, wearing a NOFX T-shirt. It was a confusing time for me.
:D :D I can relate. A lot!

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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by panoramic » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:01 am

I have been able to cull some really good Swervedriver OD tones out of the EQD Dunes, it's actually the only reason I keep the pedal around. You know that subtle OD sound on raise that's behind all of it like on every track? I spent years looking for that somehow, I got close with the big box rat dialed way down but the Dunes does it really well on a lower OD setting and with the unit switched to bright mode, its like a scrubby TS-808 with more grind to it. Dialed way back gives you that vox break up at low volumes that I believe Adam used on that record extensively.
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by Larsongs » Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:57 am

The OP doesn’t say what Guitar he has? Vintage Pups & Wiring is kinda vague…

Volume & Tone settings on the Guitar, Amp & FX are extremely important… Assuming this isn’t the issue… A great Amp can make even lousy Guitars sound good… I tend to agree with the others, Chances are it’s the Amp..

That said, a great Guitar played thru a great Amp is the ideal… It may be both the Guitar & the Amp!

If the OP can, take your Guitar to a big Music Store & try several Amps. Leave your FX at home... You’ll find out pretty quick if it’s the Guitar… Or, you just might find the right Amp..

You could do the opposite too. Take your Amp to the big Music Store & try several Guitars.. You’ll find out pretty quick if it’s your Amp or your Guitar…

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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by blacktiger » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:41 am

Larsongs wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:57 am
The OP doesn’t say what Guitar he has? Vintage Pups & Wiring is kinda vague…
blacktiger wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:13 am
Current guitar: Jazzmaster w/vintage style wiring and pick-ups
If that’s too vague, it started life as a VM Squier but has had literally every part upgraded over time, except the body itself and the neck plate. The wiring harness is from 920D and is vintage spec. The pickups are hand-wound vintage spec Jazzmaster pickups built by an OSG member (forget his handle, but people liked his work). It could probably use a professional set up, but I’m pretty confident it’s a solid guitar. I played vintage JMs in the ‘90s and early ‘00s, and I don’t find this guitar particularly lacking in any area in comparison beyond the general feel of a vintage guitar, which (IME) you are only going to get in a vintage guitar (though I’ve seen some Danocasters that might get you there, or close enough).

I wanted to try to be objective, but yeah, 99% chance it’s the amp. It’s a great little amp if you play classic rock on Les Pauls, but maybe not as well-suited for a more indie bent.
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by blacktiger » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:40 am

Anticlimax: It was the amp, but specifically the low power mode. This kind of solves the old problem and maybe raises a new one. The low power mode is kind of muddy, at least on lower volumes. The regular full 5 watts is clear as a bell, but it’s loud as hell. Under 3, it’s also a bit on the dark side (though not as bad as on low power mode), but at 3, it’s pretty damn loud. That may sound crazy, since we are talking about a single EL84 5 watt amp, but I swear to jah that this thing is as loud or louder on 3 as 30 or 40 watt amps I’ve owned at similar settings. I think I might try a 5751 in the preamp and see where that puts me…
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by JSett » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:51 am

blacktiger wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:40 am
Anticlimax: It was the amp, but specifically the low power mode. This kind of solves the old problem and maybe raises a new one. The low power mode is kind of muddy, at least on lower volumes. The regular full 5 watts is clear as a bell, but it’s loud as hell. Under 3, it’s also a bit on the dark side (though not as bad as on low power mode), but at 3, it’s pretty damn loud. That may sound crazy, since we are talking about a single EL84 5 watt amp, but I swear to jah that this thing is as loud or louder on 3 as 30 or 40 watt amps I’ve owned at similar settings. I think I might try a 5751 in the preamp and see where that puts me…
My VibroChamp is the same...loud as fuck. BUT, I'm playing it in a small room, not very far away from my head....so perception is everything. If I crank that thing in the spare room it'll make my ears ring more than my Bassman does at the rehearsal space!
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Re: A Cry for Help: WTF Am I Looking For?

Post by sal paradise » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:55 am

That’s great news- keep the Marshall & get the sounds you want.

Crazy that it’s so loud. That said, I have a dsl5 & I barely get it off 3/4 on low power mode. Never got on with that amp, and now I might know why ;D
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