Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

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stilwel
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by stilwel » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:36 am

N0_Camping4U wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:49 pm
I was interested - I have a Twin Reverb Tone Master that I really like, but my roommate has a rumble 800 bass amp. It has tons of built in effects, but it recently started kind of.. 'glitching'. And that made me nervous to the whole thing. My amp tech probably can't even work on it, he's old and knows about tubes, caps, etc. Does he know about circuit boards?... Who can repair these?
Any Authorized Fender Repair Center can work on them and will have access to new PCB assemblies.

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shoule79
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by shoule79 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:53 am

Just going to weigh in on the reliability thing.

I used to run an IT department before the world of consulting called. When I deployed workstations (laptops or desktops) we would keep them for 5 years (3 of which under warranty). Tue Tone Masters use similar boards and processors with simulator architecture (from what I can tell) to your average laptop. Obviously a different form factor and use case in the amp vs something like a laptop.

Off the hop, from my experience dealing with computer electronics, I expect my TMDR to make it 5 years. Bad computers are fairly rare out of the box, and they get tested and RMA’d before they get deployed to an end user. Basically, if you open it up and plug it in and there are no issues in the first week, you’re probably good. The only real hardware issue I’ve ever seen consistently with laptops are the Microsoft Surface gen 2 (bad heat displacement causes their screens to come apart after 3 years or so).

Keeping the PC analogy in play. My personal laptop is over 7 years old. I am not easy on my equipment. My laptops are thrown in and out of a case, into a car every day and are always on the go. I also had in my industrial environment, PC’s with specialized legacy hardware that we’re 10 years old and going strong.

Does this mean that the TM series is going to last forever? No. But it’s not like they are going to go up in a poof of smoke the minute after the warranty expires either. My current laptop (7 year old Lenovo if you are wondering) was also over double the cost of my TMDR. Putting that into focus, I don’t see it as a terribly bad investment.

I do think of it as a consumable, but what is likely a long term consumable. It may get replaced at that time, and I may get a buddy to turn it into a hand wired PTP DR when that day comes.

Again, I’m not selling my tube amps, but my TM is my gigging amp now.

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sal paradise
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by sal paradise » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:25 am

Computers aren’t really a good example of how long these will last. Software demands are always increasing which is a huge reason why memory & batteries die on laptops.

A quick Google says that RAM should last years, processors 20 years. Actually it’s really sad to think these will be landfill after 10 years.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Sauerkraut » Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:24 am

What we expect from computers is very different from what we expect from amps. Most folks, especially those who depend on computers for work, need the hardware to be able to keep up with what the software demands. None of that applies to amps, there’s no technological development to keep up with; if a 70 year old amp sounds good to a musician, it can be useful to them in some way or other (depending on output, weight, etc.). Putting parts that last less than a decade or two (and then likely have become irreplaceable) in a product with that function is, at best, silly. Good business strategy though, I suppose. Personally, I think it’s a crime against the environment. Considering current prices of vintage amps, I personally think the only good reason to buy a tone master series amp is if you have very, very serious back issues and more money than wisdom.

If more people agreed with me, prices of hand wired amps will probably double tomorrow, so in a way I should be glad these things appear to be in demand.

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by shoule79 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:39 pm

sal paradise wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:25 am
Computers aren’t really a good example of how long these will last. Software demands are always increasing which is a huge reason why memory & batteries die on laptops.

A quick Google says that RAM should last years, processors 20 years. Actually it’s really sad to think these will be landfill after 10 years.
I guess I should have clarified my point, people are fine with a computer lasting 5 years, no one complains. People perceive that these amps, which are basically computers, won’t last 40 years, they complain.

I had a jukebox PC in my old server room which was a mid-90’s Compaq desktop running Windows 98 (not connected to the network) up until a couple years ago. I think one of the hard drives finally went so we retired it.

I expect 5 years out of the amp minimum from experience conservatively, and may get somewhere in the 10-20 range depending on level of abuse. Maybe it will surprise me and still be kicking in 40 years, who knows?

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by sal paradise » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:04 pm

I recommend not kicking it. That will probably shorten its life span.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:16 pm

shoule79 wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:39 pm


I guess I should have clarified my point, people are fine with a computer lasting 5 years, no one complains. People perceive that these amps, which are basically computers, won’t last 40 years, they complain.
Well, computers become obsolete, sometimes forced, regardless buying a new computer usually gets you something better than you had. Like I said earlier, computers are disposable.

And if the amp is a computer emulating a 70 year old design, well, it'll fail eventually. Could be twenty or thirty years, though. It not something to really worry about.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by andy_tchp » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:23 pm

Sauerkraut wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:24 am
Personally, I think it’s a crime against the environment.
This is my main issue with these. Why should a guitar amplifier of all things get added to the list of 'disposable' appliances ending up in landfill?
stilwel wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:36 am
Any Authorized Fender Repair Center can work on them and will have access to new PCB assemblies.
While those assemblies are still manufactured.. Chip manufacturers will not continue to produce obsolete CPUs beyond end of life.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by shoule79 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:36 pm

sal paradise wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:04 pm
I recommend not kicking it. That will probably shorten its life span.
But how else will it digitally simulate the reverb spring sproing sound if I don’t kick it?

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