Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Make it loud here.
User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:38 am

For a long time, one of the best kept secrets in a small low-powered tube amp was the Magnasync Moviola URS film editing amp. I generally run it into an external 12" speaker, but the internal 4" has a bit of charm as well.

I've used probably ten of them, and while the addition of a quarter-inch jack has been accomplished in a few different ways, they all had two things in common: Some of the best natural tube overdrive I've ever heard, and an incredible amount of noise (enough to make it unusable in many circumstances).

When I say they're really noisy, I don't just mean from a "recording snob" perspective... I mean they are really noisy. The noise can be divided into two main categories: mechanical and electronic.

The mechanical noise is pretty easy to address. I used infomercial FlexTape™ to make gaskets between the mating surfaces of the bent-steel cabinet, and also between the speaker and the cab. A bit more to the broadest surfaces of sheet metal damped some of the vibration. Sorted!

The electronic noise is primarily a prominent hum that gets worse as the volume control is increased. My first look was at the power supply filters--the schematic lists 10µF for all stages. But within my own example all stages are 20µF, which should be fine, and also past experience tells me that these caps are not the biggest issue.

Next I tried balanced heaters by adding two 100 ohm resistors as an artificial center tap. Maybe a tiny marginal improvement? But still way too noisy.

Finally I admitted what I long suspected to be true--the way the grounds are laid out in this amp is what makes it noisy, and I'd have to blow the whole thing apart and essentially rebuild it.

Long story slightly-shorter: dual star-grounds fixed the issue and now I can enjoy this amp with only normal amounts of tube amp noise (without losing anything I love about the amp).

On the schematic below, I've marked for deletion some parts that were not part of the actual amp (designed to send power to other Magnasync film equipment).

Connections that go to the first "input stage" star ground are marked with a "1." The second "power/output stage" star ground connections are marked with a "2"

Point "1" is on one end of the chassis, somewhat near the added quarter-inch jack (which I isolated from the chassis using a nylon shoulder washer or rubber grommet). Point "2" is a power transformer mounting bolt.

Image

Before (note the ground bus between the two can caps, which contained everything from power supply filters to input stage ground reference):

Image

After:

Image

User avatar
fuzzjunkie
Expat
Expat
Posts: 7298
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:32 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by fuzzjunkie » Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:25 pm

I remember reading about those years ago on Tape Op. basically a tweed Fender Champ for lunch money after a few mods. I have never seen or heard one myself.

That looks like clean work! When you first started describing it, I expected a rat’s nest and wondered if it was really worth the effort. Sounds like it was!

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:18 pm

To me, these are even cooler than a tweed champ! I like the sound more, once all the buzzes and rattles are sorted. Especially into a decent 4 ohm 12" speaker, but the little onboard guy is cool too.

Interestingly, it's not entirely as similar to a champ as is often portrayed. The 6AQ5A output is one obvious difference, but there's also no negative feedback loop, all cathodes are bypassed (less negative feedback yet again), larger plate loads (a big 220k), etc.

The end result is kind of the most flattering caricature of tube overdrive. The best part is the subtle, progressive ramp-up of everything as you turn that single knob up.

It gets louder, and also gradually more colorful and distorted, and squishier. It's not like some amps where there's kind of a clipping threshold that you noticeably cross. This one just smoothly transitions from "only a little overdriven" to "totally blown out" in this gradual, nuanced way.

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:23 pm

I want to hear this!

User avatar
Scout
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:26 pm
Location: Phillyish

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by Scout » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:50 pm

So you remade the ground connections?

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm

Scout wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:50 pm
So you remade the ground connections?
Reconfigured where the grounds connect, to be precise.

It's a common misconception that "ground is ground," but that's only really true in theory. In reality, nothing has zero resistance, so there are all sorts of little currents going on all the time in a metal chassis. You have to keep the fragile input stage grounds away from the dirty power supply and output stage grounds.

In this case, the volume control, the first 12AX7's ground reference, and the 12AX7 cathodes were all grounded to the same place as the main power filter capacitors.

So every time those big capacitors charged and discharged (120 times per second to be precise), whatever disruption they made to their ground got coupled directly to the input and amplified massively (= "hum").

It didn't help, probably, that the power transformer's center tap was located in a different place, kind of far away (this would want to create noise, too, in the form of big power supply currents crawling across the chassis contaminating anything in their wake).

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:23 pm
I want to hear this!
What kind of guitar do you want to hear it with?

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:13 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm
marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:23 pm
I want to hear this!
What kind of guitar do you want to hear it with?
A JM maybe?

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8856
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by JSett » Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:34 am

marqueemoon wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:13 am
øøøøøøø wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm
marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:23 pm
I want to hear this!
What kind of guitar do you want to hear it with?
A JM maybe?
Correct answer. And seconded
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:54 am

marqueemoon wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:13 am
øøøøøøø wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:08 pm
marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:23 pm
I want to hear this!
What kind of guitar do you want to hear it with?
A JM maybe?
I'll make two.

Here's the internal 4" speaker. 1962 JM straight in. Original neck pickup, Novak stealth WRHB in the bridge. I switch between the two a bit and it should be fairly obvious where.

https://youtu.be/IRaPSpitqRk

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:05 am

I love it. It’s a little more jagged sounding than I was expecting, but I can totally picture that in a track.

What a great looking piece of gear too.

User avatar
Maggieo
Expat
Expat
Posts: 13446
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am
Location: Nebraska, USA
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by Maggieo » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:10 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:54 am


I'll make two.

Here's the internal 4" speaker. 1962 JM straight in. Original neck pickup, Novak stealth WRHB in the bridge. I switch between the two a bit and it should be fairly obvious where.

https://youtu.be/IRaPSpitqRk
WOW!~! :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: The fully cranked up sound is fantastic.

I want one. :fp:
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:21 am

Maggieo wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:10 am
øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:54 am


I'll make two.

Here's the internal 4" speaker. 1962 JM straight in. Original neck pickup, Novak stealth WRHB in the bridge. I switch between the two a bit and it should be fairly obvious where.

https://youtu.be/IRaPSpitqRk
WOW!~! :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: The fully cranked up sound is fantastic.

I want one. :fp:
A fine candidate for Tiny Amp Town!

They're not too expensive yet. But like anything even vaguely music-related prices have crept up over the past 24 months or so.

User avatar
øøøøøøø
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5996
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:21 am

Here it is into an Orange PPC412 with older Celestion Vintage 30s

A lot of the "jagged" character comes from the 4" speaker, I think. When cranked, it's much smoother into an external larger speaker or cab.

Blue jazzmaster cameo appearance at the end

https://youtu.be/aJGsDGx4bVA

Moviola is 4 ohm output and the PPC412 is a 16 ohm cab, so "not recommended," but I've used this combo before, and in practice everything seems to survive.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Making the Moviola URS usably-quiet

Post by Embenny » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:25 am

What a cool amp, and cool project. It's amazing that someone could go to all the trouble of designing and building this thing without bothering to organize the grounds in a sensible way. Realistically, how much time and effort could it have cost to ground it like you did in the first place? Seems like one of those "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" scenarios.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

Post Reply