How Big's The Gig...?

Make it loud here.
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MrShake
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How Big's The Gig...?

Post by MrShake » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:35 am

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... and are you happy with your rig?



I finally achieved full happiness with my rehearsal/live/band rig last night. Always been pretty content as my needs are just a good clean LOUD pedal platform, but, I'm, like, DONE searching. I've generally played with 50w tube power sections over the years to give some idea of my usual volume needs. Last night I got chest-thudding volume, clarity, and push from a rig that was assembled from literal garbage over the past few years -- a ZT Lunchbox I found in the trash (missing a power cable), a Fender Deluxe 112 Plus that had been abandoned as broken (cleaned jacks and pots, tightened some bolts, and it's like new), and a homemade extension cab -- made out of a husked PA cabinet find and the cheapest speaker I could get on Sweetwater.

Put together, they were too loud against a no-nuance drummer attacking huge toms with baseball bat sticks in a Stooges/Spacemen 3/"Let's Shake Hands" kind of mode, about five feet away. And while I have some sentimental connection to these particular amps and would replace either in an instant with the same model, I'm not gonna lose my mind and melt down if somebody drops a beer on it, like I once saw happen to some guy's Rockerverb between sets. Oof.

I stopped gigging my Bassman Ten when it was just getting too cumbersome to drag to small 40 minute gigs, it wasn't worth the hassle and I had some loose tube issues for a while. And our band toured in a two-door Civic for a long time with a few gigantic drums. Like I said ,the amps I've gotten since the B10 have found me -- I didn't pick them, I ended up with them. Over the years, my live amp setup has developed where I've got all the bases covered, from laziest to heaviest:

1) Laziest - ZT Lunchbox alone
Take only this, put the amp on a stool for stage volume and for headstock-rubbing controlled feedback, run a line from the headphone out to the PA and get more stage volume in the monitors and trust the sound engineer to bring me up in the PA. Lots of volume, all routed out of the ZT. Small, light, versatile, good neutral cleans to eat pedals. If I'm playing a solo gig (sans fuzz or Thumper Thunderbottom on the skins), this is the obvious choice.

2) Mid-Lazy, One-Handed - Deluxe 112 Plus
Loud as hell, one box, no line out, real straightforward, great clean channel, but heavier to carry. More punk rock power, less diversity. If I could only take one box and raw power and clarity were the most important factor, this would be it. Built in reverb and passable-enough low-gain-Rat-like settings on the second channel could also get me through a gig in a pinch if the pedalboard completely gave out.

3) Mid-Lazy, Two-Handed - ZT + 15" Ext. Cab
Very loud, nice and modular, more stage volume than the ZT alone, more low-end, but retaining the ability to also direct out for monitors and PA to get more inches of speaker moving. A few more cubic inches to carry than the Deluxe, and not quite as loud, but thicker and beefier. Has a cool thrift-store aesthetic.

4) Bring The Pain - ZT + Extension Cab + Deluxe (a.k.a. "Trash Stack")
Breathtakingly powerful for small, cheap gear. Tons of clean headroom for my pedals, can be sent stereo reverb from my pedalboard, easy to break down, and brought it all home for cleaning last night - in an uber. And if there's trouble with monitors onstage, I can take/angle one of the three components over to the drummer so she can hear better. Pretty portable for the power if you have a person to carry the ZT or a backpack. Not portable like a Princeton, but not lugging a Twin Reverb around. If one amp konks out I've already got the backup firing onstage.

5) Uuuuggghh... am I just showing off? - Bassman Ten
Fender tube tone. Loud, clear, warm, punchy. Sounds amazing. LOOKS amazing. SF cleans, closed-back 4x10 punch, speakers that bring out mids, it's almost the perfect Fender for my style. Takes up a ton of available space in the trunk of the Honda. Weighs 80 lbs. Likes to fall over frontwards. Feels good to play, touch response and power feel off the charts.. But since what I need is just a clean pedal platform, is it worth it unless the gig is really something special?

So, yeah. I can pick my configuration depending on the size of the show or energy level I have that night, I'll have plenty of stage volume and low weight with any of them, and if I go all-in, it'll rattle cinder block walls. The price tag totaled a single 15" speaker, and even if I had to replace it ALL overnight, it's still... what, $600-700? For a crushing gigging amp setup? Not money I have, but still cheaper than a lot of mid-level solid state head/cab configs that could hang for a real loud band at gig levels. It may look like a stack of junk, but I really feel like I could go toe to toe with just about anything and it would sound great. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea (purists who like a Tele straight into a Tweed need not apply), but it's a righteous tower of rock.

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So after all that, it's delightful to be "satisfied" with a gig rig that's not fragile or pricey or precious, does exactly what I need it to do, can be broken down into constituent parts for portability/modularity, has a fair amount of sound-routing options, and sounds f'in brutal...

Who else among you has found peace and harmony with your gig/rehearsal rig, and was it what you expected?

Did it end up being something super-cheap? Or is your rig your rig and that's it?

How do you decide what setup to take to a given gig?

What kind of options do you value in your live amp setup? Volume? Headroom? Versatility? Portability?

Who else is as happy with the sound of their "cheap alternative" as they are with their fancier stuff?

Been one of those days stuck at home, and would love to see how y'all navigate the differences and nuances of what hardware to use for the given job. You're all geniuses and magical, so keep making art.

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redchapterjubilee
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Re: How Big's The Gig...?

Post by redchapterjubilee » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:53 am

I’m learning to do things a little differently these days. For years my live rig was a Mesa Mark I reissue head and 4x10 cabinet. My band was LOUD and I ran that amp hot. The band had dynamics but my spot in the mix was always at like 45% to my guitar partner’s 55%. The Mesa compresses when it is hit with volume boosts so my tone could be cleanish to dirtyish to filthy without big leaps in volume. That approach worked in that band. But that band is now largely a recording project because we have all moved to different parts of the country.

My new band is much more dynamic and the guy who plays good guitar in this band wants to trade off with me on single string melody parts. So instead of me always being like 45 to my partners 55 and compressed, I’ve got to sometimes be at 70/30 and sometimes at 30/70 and sometimes 45/55, etc. I needed headroom so I could do things at different volumes. And at a lower volume in general, as I don’t want to blast 100w at people in this band. So I’ve had to use a different amp and pedal scenario. No more master volume amps. So far I’ve been using my Bassman 20 head into an alnico 2x10 and results have been good. The other guitarist is using a couple of different 50w amps (Classic 50 combo, Ampeg gvt, a mills amp) but he’s been largely dissatisfied and desperately wants to Hiwatt or Sound City or some other big British clean. When he does that I know I’ll need a little more power and headroom. Last week I caught a stupendous once in a lifetime deal on a 69 bandmaster head. So if the 20w rig falls apart I’ve got the bandmaster and 2x12 to try and if that is too scoopy for me I’ve got a 59 bassman ltd in a headshell I can run lower than I like for a clean platform. On the floor I’ve not changed much except that I’m using my drive pedals different than I did before. Usually I’d turn the volume up and leave the drive low. Now I’m using a better balance of volume and gain, and I’ve just added an EQ pedal as my last in line gain so I can poke out more for lead lines.

I also at times play solo shows, either with electronic backing or just voice and guitar. With those gigs I go ampless and use an Iridium as my amp. I was using either my 5E3 or Vox MV50AC but it was hard to get the mix right and not be beamy. I thought ampless would be weird but I like how I can get what I want and get the mix right. I’m not ready to go there for a band scenario but I’m certainly realizing the value in it.

So yeah. I’d thought my setup was largely static and I knew what I was doing. But then things changed so I’m changing approaches to adapt. The good thing is I’ve got a lot of different amps and cabs to adjust.

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Re: How Big's The Gig...?

Post by MrShake » Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:47 am

That's really interesting. I haven't spent much time with an old-school Mesa, but in my limited saturated experience, I have to imagine the shift to a Bassman must have been a little bit of a live adjustment. But like you say, it's good to be prepared and have options. And full credit for being adaptable, trying a new role. Do you find yourself jockeying the amp volume more often, without a master volume on there? Or does the headroom let you just switch it up with your feet or volume knob?

It's crazy how important inter-instrument dynamics are. There are a lot of players who have "their sound" and if they can't adapt it, it just doesn't sit right in a band context, or even just in another band. "Who plays what and how" really can be as (or more important than) what flavor of amp. Gotta make sure everybody has their own slice of the EQ range.

Recently saw a guy who had a crushing sound on his super-tweakable hybrid amp and boutique effects setup while the band was setting up. But it was clear it was set at low home volumes and then just turned up. It was a really cool sound, great playing, but he never fit in with the rest of the band once things kicked up. But hey, maybe that's how he wanted to sound, I don't wanna be a jerk. It's just that it was pretty straightforward rock with a guitar that sounded like it was flown in from another show's mix.

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Re: How Big's The Gig...?

Post by s_mcsleazy » Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:10 am

i've always wanted to try a bassman 10. i've been using a modded 50 for nearly 12 years and i never wanna get rid of it, but i've always been curious to try one. like pair it with a fender quad reverb. but atm, i feel this is my ideal rig.
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Re: How Big's The Gig...?

Post by redchapterjubilee » Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:37 am

MrShake wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:47 am
Do you find yourself jockeying the amp volume more often, without a master volume on there? Or does the headroom let you just switch it up with your feet or volume knob?
The absence of a master means I have to be willing to know my sound will change when people ask me to turn down. Before I could compensate with the preamp gain. Now with no master you all know that if 3.5 is your normal volume and you gotta go down to 2, the amp reacts differently and I have to change things on the floor too. So I'm still learning how to deal with that. I'm also thinking that I sold my Mass 100 last year a little prematurely. I may need to have another good attenuator to keep in my gig bag.

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Re: How Big's The Gig...?

Post by MrShake » Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:06 am

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:10 am
i've always wanted to try a bassman 10. i've been using a modded 50 for nearly 12 years and i never wanna get rid of it, but i've always been curious to try one. like pair it with a fender quad reverb. but atm, i feel this is my ideal rig.
I know you've long been one of the biggest SF Bassman proponents around these parts, hard to argue with results. Your setup looks righteous - versatile and loud with lots of personality. I seem to remember we actually acquired our Bassmen around roughly the same time, back when SF stuff was regularly written off. Glad to hear you bonded, man. And yeah, the B10 is great. Bone simple, kinda blunt with the 4x10 and MOD speakers, but as long as it's working right, it's never failed to deliver what it's promised - loud, powerful clean amplification. Great for Bass VI, too.
redchapterjubilee wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:37 am
The absence of a master means I have to be willing to know my sound will change when people ask me to turn down. Before I could compensate with the preamp gain. Now with no master you all know that if 3.5 is your normal volume and you gotta go down to 2, the amp reacts differently and I have to change things on the floor too. So I'm still learning how to deal with that. I'm also thinking that I sold my Mass 100 last year a little prematurely. I may need to have another good attenuator to keep in my gig bag.
Coaxing amps really can be an art. Something to negotiate with. And attenuators seem like a whole 'nother rabbit hole...

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