It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

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DeathJag
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It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by DeathJag » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:27 pm

First off let me say that I vastly prefer the sound of big amps turned down then small amps at regular levels. I realize I could get a bunch of 10 and 15 watt amps but that's just not for me. I want to hear these big amps, just without earplugs. Stepless level attenuation is what I'm seeking.

I have been pretty dang happy with the SPL Reducer, the tone is nicely preserved at super low levels. I've used it with the '62 Bassman and also the '62 Twin-Amp and it sounds great. I never completely crank them but those big fenders don't need to be turned up very much to still be clean and super loud. I've been thinking that perhaps I have been stressing my output transformers by dialing the attenuator down so low.

I love the idea of a reactive attenuator, but all the reading I've been doing has pointed out that there really isn't one that preserves the tone at low levels. The Fryette power stations seem extremely cool now that I have learned a little more about them. It's super expensive but I like being able to still use the original speakers and be able to seamlessly dial them way down without changing what the OT sees. I also like that there's a tube power amp working in them. But the Fryette is a (highly regarded) re-amper, not an attenuator. Yet some people claimed to dislike the way it changed their tone. Which is bizarre because I thought it did not change tone.

The Weber Mass looks the part, but universally everyone said it sounded crappy at low levels. The Rock Crusher appears to have a heavy midrange boost and I want transparency. The Suhr RL (not the IR) gets great reviews from folks using it on 4 and 8 ohm cabs, they love how it preserves both the tone and feel. But that is not an attenuator either, it is a load box that must be re-amped. The Captor, OX, Toneking, all of them had similar impressions - dull when dialed down.

I'm hoping I missed something because it looks like the $$ Fryettes are both overkill and the only ones that'll do the job. Dammit. I think the PS-2 might be the best fit. Help.

Dan

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by JSett » Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:38 am

I've used Weber and they're indestructible. As for the 'low level' sound...you're always going to lose that special something that happens when there's a lot of air moving and I think that's mostly what people like. Most attenuators are best for knocking back a chunk of dB to appease a soundperson or get stage volumes in check rather than making a 100w monster good for bedroom volumes.

I liked the Weber as it had controls to dial back in the tone to taste as it cut things back.
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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by michel v » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:08 am

I'm happy with my Two Notes Torpedo Reload, but I haven't compared with other attenuators.

I agree with Johnny about the reduced volume changing how we hear the amp… The Torpedo also has an EQ knob to compensate for that if one wishes, but I leave it flat, and it sounds fine to me.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by Telliot » Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:12 am

I’ve used a Swart Night Light for about 10 years now and love it.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by DeathJag » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:31 am

Thanks for the thougts!

I'm talking about 100w capacity for the Twins and Showmans, so that Swart thing would probably die quickly. I do like that double amp thing. Also that product says nothing about being reactive. Is it?

I appreciate the comments about all attenuators dulling the tone at low levels. I have to say that with the SPL reducer I have not experienced that. The Fletcher-Munson thing seems to be more of a factor than the actual output of the speaker. When I put my ear directly in front of the speaker, I can hear those high tones, but when I step back it gets duller. That's why I don't think it is the SPL's output but rather Fletcher-Munson as well as high frequency beaming. But it is not reactive so the search continues.

That Two Notes Torpedo Reload looks cool but like the Fryettes it's got way more than I want, and it's primarily a digital load box. I don't want a digital re-amper, or even an analog re-amper.
michel v wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:08 am
I'm happy with my Two Notes Torpedo Reload, but I haven't compared with other attenuators.

I agree with Johnny about the reduced volume changing how we hear the amp… The Torpedo also has an EQ knob to compensate for that if one wishes, but I leave it flat, and it sounds fine to me.
I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. What type of tone are you seeking with this at low levels? Is it clean or distorted? And when it's down to non-earplug level, you aren't hearing a tonal sacrifice? You don't really have to answer because I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go the digital route. I'm just curious.
johnnysomersett wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:38 am
Most attenuators are best for knocking back a chunk of dB to appease a soundperson or get stage volumes in check rather than making a 100w monster good for bedroom volumes.

I liked the Weber as it had controls to dial back in the tone to taste as it cut things back.
I don't really agree with that statement, I think a good attenuator can get a huge amp sounding wonderful at low levels. Actually, the SPL reducer does that very nicely. It's just not reactive. Also I'm not talking about actual bedroom levels, I'm talking about non-earplug levels. So it's still too loud to talk over but it does not hurt my ears.

So in your opinion does the EQ control bring back lost tone, or does it just mitigate by boosting the treble? And here's a very important question for you, does it sound good with a clean town?

I think a lot of people, including myself, get misled by attenuator discussions because people are talking about a completely different tone that I am after. I am not seeking a cranked distorted sound. I only use a big full clean tone that one gets with a twin or a bassman.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by JSett » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:46 am

DeathJag wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:31 am
johnnysomersett wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:38 am
Most attenuators are best for knocking back a chunk of dB to appease a soundperson or get stage volumes in check rather than making a 100w monster good for bedroom volumes.

I liked the Weber as it had controls to dial back in the tone to taste as it cut things back.
I don't really agree with that statement, I think a good attenuator can get a huge amp sounding wonderful at low levels. Actually, the SPL reducer does that very nicely. It's just not reactive. Also I'm not talking about actual bedroom levels, I'm talking about non-earplug levels. So it's still too loud to talk over but it does not hurt my ears.

So in your opinion does the EQ control bring back lost tone, or does it just mitigate by boosting the treble? And here's a very important question for you, does it sound good with a clean town?

I think a lot of people, including myself, get misled by attenuator discussions because people are talking about a completely different tone that I am after. I am not seeking a cranked distorted sound. I only use a big full clean tone that one gets with a twin or a bassman.
The EQ doesn't boost the treble (it would need to be active/powered to do that) but there are rudimentary passive bass/treble controls on the nicer units by Weber that help you shape the tone back to where you like it. When the attenuation happens things naturally get darker as an unavoidable side-effect. The tone controls just make it possible for you to dial a bit of sparkle back in.

I've only ever used one to tame big 120w non-master heads for live use, and they were always cranked for overdrive so YMMV
Also I'm not talking about actual bedroom levels, I'm talking about non-earplug levels
This was exactly the point I made. You can get a massive amp down to non-earplug levels just fine with one, but get a Hiwatt 200, Ampeg V4, Fender Twin (135w) or OR120 down to bedroom levels and they sound like garbage. Source: my extensive experience.
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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by michel v » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:25 pm

Happy to answer questions! :)
DeathJag wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:31 am
I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. What type of tone are you seeking with this at low levels? Is it clean or distorted?
Most of the time I set the amp (usually a Fender Bandmaster) where it just barely starts to break up.
DeathJag wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:31 am
And when it's down to non-earplug level, you aren't hearing a tonal sacrifice? You don't really have to answer because I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go the digital route. I'm just curious.
This one is tricky to answer, because at those settings I don't remember how the amp sounds when it's not attenuated. Unattenuated would be way too loud for me to tolerate (tinnitus/high volume sensitivity). Only thing I can say is that to me, it sounds "right". But that's so subjective!

The Torpedo Reload is not digital BTW, it's 100% analog.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by DeathJag » Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:14 pm

michel v wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:25 pm
The Torpedo Reload is not digital BTW, it's 100% analog.
Derr. Thanks for the correction! My mistake, I must have been checking out one of their other boxes that has that IR crap. That thing does look pretty impressive.

I think Johnny has convinced me to try a Weber mass. I'm going to dwell on it for a minute so if anyone else has thoughts I would love to hear them.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by Maggieo » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:06 pm

Telliot wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:12 am
I’ve used a Swart Night Light for about 10 years now and love it.
+1
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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:15 pm

I'm following along because I might want an attenuator again. I had one built in to my Fender Princeton Recording, but that thing was never all that good of an amp. However, with that you genuinely could crank the amp volume and then drop the attenuator down to very little and you could get bedroom levels.
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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by horseblanket » Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:34 pm

A Fryette Power Station would do it.
It's big and heavy, but it does the thing.
I know you know, but it's the only thing.
Well, maybe an old Bad Cat unleash.

What about just using any reactive load box with a line out into another smaller power amp?
That's pretty much what the PS and Unleash are doing.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by hulakatt » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:25 am

What's the current thoughts on the old THD Hot Plates? THD usually made pretty solid gear IIRC? I might have need of one but I'll wait til I have the Hiwatt up and running.
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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by DeathJag » Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:35 pm

Welp, Weber built and shipped me a Mass 200, and I tried it out last night. It sounds effin great! I was using it for the wet amp, and I left the treble compensator knob all the way down. It's kind of funny, there is a bypass switch and when I hit it, it sounded duller. I mean bypassing the Mass 200 sounded duller than engaging it with the level up to max. I definitely hear the highs getting loud when I turned that knob up. Using it with the reverb gives me one more way of taming the shrillness, and I have to say that keeping the treble knob down to zero helped a ton. I haven't used it on a clean guitar yet.

One thing I found strange is how much attenuation is needed, according to the huge rheostat. It is numbered 0 - 10, and with the Twin at 9 o' clock, it's got to be set at 1 or less. In fact it seems to do very little until way down there. Maybe that's the nature of attenuators?! The SPL Reducer is kind of like that also. Today I'm going to swap which amps get which attenuator and see how it sounds.

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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by JSett » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:52 pm

Every attenuator Ive used seemed to do the same...it think it's down to how ears perceive volume, rather than a logical "it's on 5, surely it should be half as loud?!" mentality. I never really got much use out of my Weber taming my OR120 down to anything close to bedroom levels, but at a show if the soundperson wanted me to shave a few dBs off for better control I could do so with very little detriment to the tone (and that thing sounded great on about 8, but no master volume, so it peeled paint). The only thing that suffered was the speaker breakup.
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Re: It's 2023, is there a good reactive attenuator?

Post by sal paradise » Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:50 am

Wattage is logarithmic, not linear. 5 isn’t half etc.. is it related to that?
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