speaker cab science

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speaker cab science

Post by jthomas » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:24 pm

The science of speaker cabs. This guy impresses me. Kinda like Mythbusters for tonz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eeC1XyZxYs&t=68s

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by Telliot » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:41 pm

That was fascinating.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by jthomas » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:51 pm

I saw one of his videos last year where he suspended some strings over a pickup and compared it to a guitar body. The details are a little vague (I'm getting old) but as I recall, there wasn't much difference in perceived tone. I can't remember if he had a frequency analyzer at that point.

EDIT- This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02tImce3AE

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by OffYourFace » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:59 pm

why does his hat (worn in most of his videos) have the number 45 on it?

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by countertext » Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:30 am

OffYourFace wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:59 pm
why does his hat (worn in most of his videos) have the number 45 on it?
Looks NASCAR. Kurt Busch?

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:31 am

Props to any YouTuber who gets 300k views... that's hard to do, and a real accomplishment!

But you gotta admit that this has a bit of a "the #1 tone secret that speaker cab companies don't want you to know about!" vibe to it.

If someone wants to learn about the science of speaker cabinets without the influence of guitar forum magical thinking, I suggest reading a few books (or even just reading a Wikipedia article on Thiele-Small parameters).

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by sal paradise » Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:37 am

His video on sustain is really cool. I would say he’s got a lot of time on his hands, but this seems a good way to make money. Although I imagine he’s driven by obsession, not $$$
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:14 am

Yeah, I‘ve seen some of his videos. Pretty interesting and a nice, humbling, scientific approach. Would have been a nice activity to do during lockdowns - but appears more recent…

My old band‘s drummer wrote his thesis in his sound engineer program about cabs and why different constructions (Mesa, Orange, Marshall, maybe more - considering wood thickness, ply vs mdf, etc, I think it was all about 4x12s) sound different with the same speakers (V30s) used.

To me the amp episode was most interesting - that it only was a few components that changed the voicing so drastically.

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by OffYourFace » Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:12 am

countertext wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:30 am
OffYourFace wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:59 pm
why does his hat (worn in most of his videos) have the number 45 on it?
Looks NASCAR. Kurt Busch?
i'll take your word cuz I know nothing about Nascar :D

I enjoyed his videos. I binge watched like 4 of them. I enjoyed the part in the amp one where he finds the flat frequency of the 3 different amps and runs them through the same speaker. I can imagine how that would make them sound very similar but no one plays music by listening to close-mic'd speakers only. I'm sure listening to that test in person would allow us to hear differences but it goes to show you that it's not really worth sweating over minor details. Just play and make the best out of what you've got.

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:28 pm

This was fantastic!!
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by shoegaze_head » Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:11 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:31 am
Props to any YouTuber who gets 300k views... that's hard to do, and a real accomplishment!

But you gotta admit that this has a bit of a "the #1 tone secret that speaker cab companies don't want you to know about!" vibe to it.

If someone wants to learn about the science of speaker cabinets without the influence of guitar forum magical thinking, I suggest reading a few books (or even just reading a Wikipedia article on Thiele-Small parameters).
Yeah I got that vibe but with how much people think anything from the wood in your guitar to the material your capacitors are made of have a monumental impact on your sound I'd rather lean on the too skeptical. If nothing else it has convinced me that if I build my own cab with my adequate woodworking skills it won't automatically suck because I'm not knowledgeable about acoustics.
MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:14 am
Yeah, I‘ve seen some of his videos. Pretty interesting and a nice, humbling, scientific approach. Would have been a nice activity to do during lockdowns - but appears more recent…

My old band‘s drummer wrote his thesis in his sound engineer program about cabs and why different constructions (Mesa, Orange, Marshall, maybe more - considering wood thickness, ply vs mdf, etc, I think it was all about 4x12s) sound different with the same speakers (V30s) used.

To me the amp episode was most interesting - that it only was a few components that changed the voicing so drastically.
I'd be interested in reading this, especially how his reasoning and methods would compare to Jim's

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:37 am

shoegaze_head wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:11 am
øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:31 am
Props to any YouTuber who gets 300k views... that's hard to do, and a real accomplishment!

But you gotta admit that this has a bit of a "the #1 tone secret that speaker cab companies don't want you to know about!" vibe to it.

If someone wants to learn about the science of speaker cabinets without the influence of guitar forum magical thinking, I suggest reading a few books (or even just reading a Wikipedia article on Thiele-Small parameters).
Yeah I got that vibe but with how much people think anything from the wood in your guitar to the material your capacitors are made of have a monumental impact on your sound I'd rather lean on the too skeptical. If nothing else it has convinced me that if I build my own cab with my adequate woodworking skills it won't automatically suck because I'm not knowledgeable about acoustics.
I'd suggest that knowledge about acoustics does matter, just as any expertise matters if you want to be reasonably-assured of a result that's reliably-good.

If you're willing to get "in the ballpark" and hope for a bit of luck, you might accept a bit of randomness.

It's very possible to get lucky and make a good-sounding cab of random dimensions. But particularly with a sealed cab, the internal volume and dimensions is a very real influence--it's not guitar forum junk science; it's a big enough deal that there's an industry-standard set of measurement parameters that predict how a specific driver will work in a cab of specific volume

With open back cabs, it becomes less of an issue. With bass-reflex ("ported") cabs it becomes even more of one, because the port must be tuned (ideally to a specific make/model of loudspeaker).

A really good course of action for those of us without the engineering chops: follow some plans of a known good-sounding cab, or at least copy the dimensions.

It's also worth acknowledging that guitar amp cabinets tend to be a bit less carefully-optimized than, say, reference monitors... so it's possible that something a bit sub-optimal would be just fine to the ear of us guitarists. The fact that Marshall cabs (for instance) used different models of loudspeaker over the years hints that they weren't really carefully-tuned to their specific drivers.

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by JSett » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:33 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:31 am
Thiele
Thiele cabs are magical when done right
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by shoegaze_head » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:33 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:37 am
I'd suggest that knowledge about acoustics does matter, just as any expertise matters if you want to be reasonably-assured of a result that's reliably-good.

If you're willing to get "in the ballpark" and hope for a bit of luck, you might accept a bit of randomness.

It's very possible to get lucky and make a good-sounding cab of random dimensions. But particularly with a sealed cab, the internal volume and dimensions is a very real influence--it's not guitar forum junk science; it's a big enough deal that there's an industry-standard set of measurement parameters that predict how a specific driver will work in a cab of specific volume
Sorry if my post made it seem like I was totally dismissing acoustic engineering, there def is a lot of work that goes into building pretty much any space where sound is projected. I didn't mean to imply that I could design my own cab on a whim and that it would sound great, but I've been considering copying dimensions off of an existing cab to make my own for a little cheaper.

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Re: speaker cab science

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:26 pm

JSett wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:33 pm
øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:31 am
Thiele
Thiele cabs are magical when done right
Thiele-Small parameters are not to be confused with the so-called Thiele ported cabs :)

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