Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

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Larry Mal
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:36 am

Not to mention it has RAM in it, and a processor, all of which is also going to fail at some point.

When, though, is anyone's guess. Could last twenty, thirty years, might last five.

So I guess the guy in that video makes the point that it's basically a computer, so treat it like a computer, let it solve your immediate needs and understand it will be obsolete some day.

Not an heirloom.

It's a weird concept, you know? A modeling amp that models itself and costs as much as what it's modeling.

But, the modern day Princetons like I bought with the PCB board, is that stuff really going to be working twenty or thirty years down the road?
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Larsongs » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:34 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:36 am
Not to mention it has RAM in it, and a processor, all of which is also going to fail at some point.

When, though, is anyone's guess. Could last twenty, thirty years, might last five.

So I guess the guy in that video makes the point that it's basically a computer, so treat it like a computer, let it solve your immediate needs and understand it will be obsolete some day.

Not an heirloom.

It's a weird concept, you know? A modeling amp that models itself and costs as much as what it's modeling.

But, the modern day Princetons like I bought with the PCB board, is that stuff really going to be working twenty or thirty years down the road?
They have sold 1000 times the number of Tube PRRI, DRRI's, Super Reverbs & Twins over the years.. These Amps are staples.. I'm pretty sure Parts issues are non-existent (Except maybe, like everything else, due to Covid)... Even the PCB's...

Niche SS Amps have had short shelf lives. They come & go.. Not enough of them to warrant OEM Parts...

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:28 am

That is a good point.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by andy_tchp » Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:23 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:36 am
But, the modern day Princetons like I bought with the PCB board, is that stuff really going to be working twenty or thirty years down the road?
First of the 'reissue' Fender tube amps built with PCBs came out in the early '90s IIRC, so in many/most cases - yes.

Worst (or best?) case scenario if the specific PCB is longer available (last I checked they still were) buy a turret board from Hoffman and rebuild it the 'old fashioned' way and keep the amp alive/out of landfill.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:26 pm

That's another good point.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Larsongs » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:56 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:23 pm
Larry Mal wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:36 am
But, the modern day Princetons like I bought with the PCB board, is that stuff really going to be working twenty or thirty years down the road?
First of the 'reissue' Fender tube amps built with PCBs came out in the early '90s IIRC, so in many/most cases - yes.

Worst (or best?) case scenario if the specific PCB is longer available (last I checked they still were) buy a turret board from Hoffman and rebuild it the 'old fashioned' way and keep the amp alive/out of landfill.
If my PCB ever goes out I would compare the price's of new PCB’s compared P to P. I would prefer Point to Point Hand Wired..

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:38 pm

This talk about these amps basically being a PC have me a little worried. I've been wanting to try one, but I don't always have that great of luck with computers at home. Since it's modeling, it would be really cool for Fender to release all their TM models as a rackmount or standalone modeling device at some point...
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by Embenny » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:44 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:38 pm
This talk about these amps basically being a PC have me a little worried. I've been wanting to try one, but I don't always have that great of luck with computers at home. Since it's modeling, it would be really cool for Fender to release all their TM models as a rackmount or standalone modeling device at some point...
Fender put the guts of their Mustang modeling amps into a floor unit, so it's certainly possible.

But those amps had effects and multiple models, so it made sense. Making a rack mount modeling unit with just one amp (or all 4) wouldn't look competitive when stacked up against the opposition. I think the TM series is trying to bring modeling to people who normally avoid modeling due to the computer-like feel of all the menus, patches, etc.

After all, if you want a standalone modeling device with great Fender cleans, you can just pick up a Fractal unit, or Helix, or any of the many great modelers out there.

This is probably a marketing decision, to keep them simple and amp-like.

Having said that, maybe they'll make a head like a Bassman or Showman - that would still be in keeping with the marketing strategy.

The whole combo thing kinda makes sense to me. It's a new niche. But a floor or rackmount modeling unit with nothing but clean Fender amps just wouldn't make sense to me when you can get that and lots more from any other modeling product.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by JSett » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:08 pm

I guess there's nothing stopping you, if you really wanted to, pulling out a PRTM chassis and mounting it somehow into a rack. Pretty sure a Princeton chassis is just under 19" wide (*EDIT: yep, just googled it, 18.25")
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by sal paradise » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:10 pm

I think that the sensitivity might be somewhat overblown here- phones are computers, and Rasberry Pi computers are used successfully in all sorts of environments.

Still, mum/dad buying their son/daughter their first guitar and amp will sell well in stores.

This thread has made me want to buy a Princeton. Now that I’ve got two drives on my board, it could be a reasonable gigging solution. Although assuming stage sound could be an issue if there isn’t good monitoring.
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by sal paradise » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:13 pm

:? :? :?

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by jdr1014 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:35 pm

I've read a number of threads on various forums about the Tonemaster Princeton Reverb. Common criticisms are how they likely will not last long, will be unreliable, can't be repaired, and of course, don't sound like the "real thing". Can't forget "too expensive" too..... Same arguments and opinions were raised with the TMTR and TMDR, and then the TM SR., but they seem to be performing quite well for hobbyists and gigging musicians alike. I really think the concerns about reliability are overstated. Lots of solid state stuff lasts a very long time.......and some we don't yet know how long. Having said that, I'm not in the market for a Tonemaster but think they are a good product for many folks. Most of my amps are tube and include 3 vintage SF Fenders, 3 reisssue Fenders, and a few others plus a pair of SS Vox Pathfinder 15R's My grandson has taken one of those SS Pathfinders to hell and back.....about 3 times lol and it still works perfectly.

A lot of the criticisms about the Tonemasters seem very similar to what we used to hear about the "crappy PCB reissues" vs the "real thing" ie, older PTP originals. It seems ironic to me that many critics of the Tonemaster now refer to the tube driven PCB Reissues as being the "real thing". The Reissues have proven themselves to be good reliable amps - the 65TRRI and 65DRRI have now been in production about twice as long the BF and SF "originals" - combined!

I will always love old vintage Fender tube amps. But, I'm pretty darn fond of a couple of my reissues too. The point is that newer technology can produce great amps too. If an amp works well and makes good musical sounds that pleases the user, it Is a good amp.

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:41 pm

jdr1014 wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:35 pm
I've read a number of threads on various forums about the Tonemaster Princeton Reverb. Common criticisms are how they likely will not last long, will be unreliable, can't be repaired, and of course, don't sound like the "real thing". Can't forget "too expensive" too..... Same arguments and opinions were raised with the TMTR and TMDR, and then the TM SR., but they seem to be performing quite well for hobbyists and gigging musicians alike. I really think the concerns about reliability are overstated. Lots of solid state stuff lasts a very long time.......and some we don't yet know how long. Having said that, I'm not in the market for a Tonemaster but think they are a good product for many folks. Most of my amps are tube and include 3 vintage SF Fenders, 3 reisssue Fenders, and a few others plus a pair of SS Vox Pathfinder 15R's My grandson has taken one of those SS Pathfinders to hell and back.....about 3 times lol and it still works perfectly.

A lot of the criticisms about the Tonemasters seem very similar to what we used to hear about the "crappy PCB reissues" vs the "real thing" ie, older PTP originals. It seems ironic to me that many critics of the Tonemaster now refer to the tube driven PCB Reissues as being the "real thing". The Reissues have proven themselves to be good reliable amps - the 65TRRI and 65DRRI have now been in production about twice as long the BF and SF "originals" - combined!
A highly proprietary quad-core CPU on a PCB populated with non-serviceable surface mounted components (attached to other proprietary modules via ribbon cables) is not the same design/implementation as those PCB reissues though; the discussions about serviceability/longevity are entirely justified.

The first of these models have not even been around for 4 years 'in the wild'.
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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by jdr1014 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:02 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:41 pm

-
A highly proprietary quad-core CPU on a PCB populated with non-serviceable surface mounted components (attached to other proprietary modules via ribbon cables) is not the same design/implementation as those PCB reissues though;

[/quote]

Never said it was, nor was that my point. Obviously completely different technology and construction. The similarities I was referring to was speculation and assertions about the "certain" reliability and longevity deficiencies the PCB reissues were going to have.....that never really has materialized.

Tonemasters may or may not prove to be unreliable and problematic. Given the fact that they have only been out a relatively short time, their relative longevity is only speculative at this point. I don't expect them to have the same life or be as repairable as PTP amps - neither do I think they will all end up in landfills within 5 years as some have stated will be the case. I do think they will have a reasonable service life (considerably longer than 5 years), but of course that is only my opinion......and my speculation. Time will tell. Cheers! :)

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Re: Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb

Post by N0_Camping4U » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:49 pm

I was interested - I have a Twin Reverb Tone Master that I really like, but my roommate has a rumble 800 bass amp. It has tons of built in effects, but it recently started kind of.. 'glitching'. And that made me nervous to the whole thing. My amp tech probably can't even work on it, he's old and knows about tubes, caps, etc. Does he know about circuit boards?... Who can repair these?
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