What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

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Larsongs
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What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by Larsongs » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:39 pm

I’m thinking about getting one.. But, I’m seeing; III, IV, Lacquer, LTD etc.. Fender, Emminence speakers etc…

Can we have a discussion as to what all the differences are? Why? Which ones do what?

Thanks,

L

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hulakatt
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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by hulakatt » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:03 am

Larsongs wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:39 pm
I’m thinking about getting one.. But, I’m seeing; III, IV, Lacquer, LTD etc.. Fender, Emminence speakers etc…

Can we have a discussion as to what all the differences are? Why? Which ones do what?

Thanks,

L
Usually different speakers but some are simply different generations of the same amp. The III and IV are just generations or revisions. Some of the special versions are simply different cosmetics for the cab.

I've only seen Lacquer and LTD refer to the tweed Bassman RI's but I don't pay that much mind to the Blues Jr's. I owned one and it put me off modern Fenders permanently. I owned it for 6 months and went back to an authorized repair center 4 times. When it worked, it was still the worst sounding amp I owned. Tried different speakers and even a different cab, it's just the definition of a boxy sounding amp.

The only "modern" Fender's I would consider at this point would be the handwired Custom Shop ones like the Vibro-King and the Dual Professional. Sorry I went off track for a bit but the BJ is really raw thorn in my side. I just really didn't get along with it and it was just problematic to own but they are very popular.

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by Larsongs » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:36 am

Sorry to hear your bad experience with one of these Amps..

They seem to sell tons of these Amps.. I recently played with a Band whose Lead Guitarist played one & it sounded great. I asked him about & he said, “I needed an Amp & only had a few hundred Bucks & this one sounded good so I bought it”…. He didn’t know any more about it…

But, looking at Sweetwater & others there seem to be at least 4 different versions of this Amp available right now.. Youtube shows more versions of this Amp over the past 8, or so, years…

Different Speakers, Reverbs & other Tweaks… ????? Why?????

Do any of you Guys play one? If so which version & what is your opinion?

Thanks,

L

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by jthomas » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:31 am

I have a 2008 NOS (based on the speaker code). It is a Model III-lacquered tweed built in Mexico with a C12N new-manufacture Jensen speaker ) . I bought it used (maybe 2010 or so) as a return or floor model from GC or MF (can't remember which) at a good price with a non-working reverb. Replaced the tank and proceeded to annoy my wife and children. Here is the link to the Wikipedia page to help ID the revision history up until 2018.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Blues_Junior


My Biases: I am not a "cork sniffer" and mostly do not perceive all the fine shadings of goodness/badness that most gear aficionados report. Obviously, different gear sounds different, but IMO that does not immediately equate with good/bad for me. For example, many people who have tried a Blues Jr complain about the "boxy" sound, but that raises the question of the meaning of "boxy." (no criticism for hulakatt intended) This also raises the issue of what comparisons are made to draw an opinion about the amp. Comparing a little 15 watt combo amp with 1 speaker to an amp with different power tubes and/or a bigger cab with multiple speakers wouldn't be fair to the Blues Jr. No criticism for those who draw such comparisons.

My Opinion: The Blues Jr is not a bad amp for what it is. It's the only tube amp that I have that has a master volume and I like the ability to get crunch at volumes that are unlikely to upset my wife (too much, anyway). I am not gigging with the amp and don't push it at high volumes for several hours. I practice at home and jam with friends and am still running with the tubes that came with the amp. I've considered selling the Jr. but when I sit down with it and play... I decide that I like it too much to let it go. The biggest problems (IMO) involves the PCB mounted tube sockets (i.e., heat damage to the PBC is common) and the high bias of the power tubes that is reported to cause a short tube life.

Bill Machrone (RIP billm) had a small business that involved mods to the Blues Jr to fix those issues and to provide other changes to the amp's sound. His web pages were a goldmine of info on this amp. After he passed away, his son maintained the business for awhile, but apparently that has ended and the web pages have disappeared. That really is a great loss, although the pages are archived:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190626060 ... ?page_id=2

Another great reference is Psionic Audio's amp repair pages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIkJdVlKGIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL9o9c0xYNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRdUewuPOlA

The latter pages show a way to fix the heat/PCB issues. His pages are great (again IMO).

I hope this is helpful. Rock on.

Jim

ps- All the different models? Fender's marketing philosophy seems to be aimed at making multiple consumer goods with only small and sometimes (IMO) trivial real differences.

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by hulakatt » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am

jthomas wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:31 am
My Biases: I am not a "cork sniffer" and mostly do not perceive all the fine shadings of goodness/badness that most gear aficionados report. Obviously, different gear sounds different, but IMO that does not immediately equate with good/bad for me. For example, many people who have tried a Blues Jr complain about the "boxy" sound, but that raises the question of the meaning of "boxy." (no criticism for hulakatt intended) This also raises the issue of what comparisons are made to draw an opinion about the amp. Comparing a little 15 watt combo amp with 1 speaker to an amp with different power tubes and/or a bigger cab with multiple speakers wouldn't be fair to the Blues Jr. No criticism for those who draw such comparisons.
So, "boxy"... I found the Blues jr to sound small and congested, muddy in the bass and lacking clarity in the treble. OTOH, I found none of these issues with a tweed Deluxe clone I built myself for little more than the BJ cost me, around $400 at that time. The Deluxe was also 15 watts, give or take a few, a single speaker, small cab and noticeably lighter to carry. It is not an amp that puts a lot of power behind its low end but it was better EQ'd around that limitation (by design, not by my own work) and its trebles were bright and clear. It was not a small sounding amp in any regard. The midrange was prominent but open sounding and never congested. In both amps I swapped in multiple speakers to try things out. The BJ always sounded much the same and the EQ I was trying to minimize was always present. In the Deluxe, the amp took on much more of the speaker's personality and flavor.

The little tweed Champ I later built was even clearer still with a flat and open EQ, even with it's little 8" speaker. The Champ, I did tweak a bit to handle a greater variety of power tubes so I could have some flexibility and fun swapping tubes around. I really discovered that there was much less difference than I expected between the different power tubes and the circuit made much more impact on the final sound.

Comparing a 15 watt, 1x12, 2xEL84 open cab combo to a 50 watt, 2xEL34, 4x12 half stack with a closed cab would, I agree, be ridiculous but comparing it to another 15 watt, 1x12 2x6V6, open cab combo by the same company is a much more even test. The biggest differences are, of course, construction but the even bigger difference is the circuit design work behind it and inside of it. The Blues Jr has reverb of course and more knobs and is built to a lower price point so Fender can sell a lot of them cheaply at a minimum cost to the themselves but it is not the more flexible amp, despite the increase in knobs.

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by s_mcsleazy » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:10 pm

so i've tried a few blues jr's over the years and my big problem with them has always been how small they sound. i don't think they sound bad, i just think it sounds like they need a different speaker and i'm not going to be the person who spends hours and hundreds trying to figure out which ones are the best.
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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by JSett » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:07 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:10 pm
so i've tried a few blues jr's over the years and my big problem with them has always been how small they sound. i don't think they sound bad, i just think it sounds like they need a different speaker and i'm not going to be the person who spends hours and hundreds trying to figure out which ones are the best.
This.

Whereas a lot of Fender combos often sound bigger than their relative size, I also find the Blues Juniors to have a small and boxy quality. They sound stiff. I can't put my finger on why but a decent champ (with a good speaker) or a Princeton always sound infinitely better.
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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by s_mcsleazy » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:17 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:07 pm
s_mcsleazy wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:10 pm
so i've tried a few blues jr's over the years and my big problem with them has always been how small they sound. i don't think they sound bad, i just think it sounds like they need a different speaker and i'm not going to be the person who spends hours and hundreds trying to figure out which ones are the best.
This.

Whereas a lot of Fender combos often sound bigger than their relative size, I also find the Blues Juniors to have a small and boxy quality. They sound stiff. I can't put my finger on why but a decent champ (with a good speaker) or a Princeton always sound infinitely better.
exactly. like how does an amp with a 12" speaker sound smaller than my vox pathfinder 10w?
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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by hulakatt » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:30 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:17 pm
johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:07 pm
s_mcsleazy wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:10 pm
so i've tried a few blues jr's over the years and my big problem with them has always been how small they sound. i don't think they sound bad, i just think it sounds like they need a different speaker and i'm not going to be the person who spends hours and hundreds trying to figure out which ones are the best.
This.

Whereas a lot of Fender combos often sound bigger than their relative size, I also find the Blues Juniors to have a small and boxy quality. They sound stiff. I can't put my finger on why but a decent champ (with a good speaker) or a Princeton always sound infinitely better.
exactly. like how does an amp with a 12" speaker sound smaller than my vox pathfinder 10w?
Or a tweed Champ?

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by jthomas » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:08 pm

"Smaller?" (and really with all respect): That is not much better than using the word "boxy" to describe an amp's sound. It is so difficult to use words to describe what we hear and what we like or don't like. Again, it just seems different to me. Like it or don't like it.

I built a Harvard (essentially a tweed Champ with a tone control) and have experimented with multiple speakers, rectifiers, and power tubes over several years. Experimenting has been fun, but I liked the tonality of the amp most with a JJ-6v6 in it with a GZ34 and that had the 6v6 biased at about 120% above the max plate dissipation. Lots of "push." (and how do I describe that to someone who wasn't here to hear it. That said, running a NOS 7581a and KT66's in it with a 5Y3 also produced a lot of fun stuff.

Hulakatt: I haven't yet built a tweed Deluxe. That (essentially) is my next build (currently in progress). Indeed, I do not believe that my Blues Jr will give me the "growl" (words again) from what I can get from a tweed Deluxe, but (IMO) the Blues Jr does what it does competently.
Last edited by jthomas on Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by andy_tchp » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm

I dunno, both 'smaller' and 'boxy' seem like really clear and obvious descriptors.

No cork-sniffing required.
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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by jthomas » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:21 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:13 pm
I dunno, both 'smaller' and 'boxy' seem like really clear and obvious descriptors.

No cork-sniffing required.
Respectfully disagree. "Smaller" and "Boxy" seem to really mean "I don't like." And, that is fine. No one amp is gonna fit everybody.

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by hulakatt » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:26 pm

jthomas wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:08 pm
"Smaller?" (and really with all respect): That is not much better than using the word "boxy" to describe an amp's sound. It is so difficult to use words to describe what we hear and what we like or don't like. Again, it just seems different to me. Like it or don't like it.
I expounded on what I mean by "boxy" and "smaller" with lacking bass, muddy midrange and congested high end. It was not a clear amp, it added a lot of its own coloration to the sound that could not be dialed out with the onboard EQ, speaker changes, tube changes or even changing the cabinet.

Good luck with the 5e3, it's a game changer of an amp! It's an amp where you play the amp as much as you play the guitar.

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by hulakatt » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:33 pm

The Epiphone Electar 30 was almost the exact same amp as the Blues Jr but dialed in better for guitar and a much better amp. An absolute steal if you can find one out there, they haven't been made since the early 00's I think. They had a horrible crest over the grillcloth that I think put a lot of people off but it comes off with a few screws.

Same control layout as the BJ, same Boost type circuit in the preamp, cheap 1x12, 2xEL84, 2x12AX7 and a cheap cabinet.

Looks like they go for around $200 on Reverb.

Image

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Re: What’s the difference between all the Tweed Blues Jr’s?

Post by Larsongs » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:55 pm

Is that why they use so many different Speakers in the Blues Jr? Hoping to find one that has the right magic?

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