What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Dr Tony Balls » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:00 am

Larsongs wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:49 pm
I’m not sure that there isn’t a way to do this that requires 2 separate Amps in the Box? A smart guy can probably come up with a work around.. Imagine a smart phone that could only be a phone. That’s how it used to be not that long ago.. But, smart guys can think up all kinds of things & do them really really well..
Re-read every post i've made in this thread and maybe you'll be sure. In a Deluxe Reverb, say, the Normal and Vibrato channel share a common back end. They share a phase inverter, negative feedback circuit, power tubes, bias circuit, output transformer, and speaker. All of those things are very different on an AC30 and cannot be shared. Ive said it over and over again and you dont seem to grasp that. Ask your friend at Fender and they will tell you the same thing. Good luck on that quest.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Dr Tony Balls » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:01 am

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by andy_tchp » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:21 am

??? Didn’t you want it to be small and lightweight? It’d be the size of a Vibroverb and weigh 60 pounds.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Larsongs » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:54 am

I remember when Computers were the size of a room, weighed tons & had very little power & ability.. Welcome to the 20th Century!

Wonder what Leo would think about how this can’t be done? It’s impossible! Heresy! It would have to weigh 60lbs & be as big as a Twin etc…

I’d almost bet there’s a guy who could come up with a couple standard size, weigh literally nothing, great sounding Pedals that would work with either a standard Fender or Vox Amp that could accomplish the goal. They could even be Tube Driven…

I think there are different possibilities…

I’m very surprised by the negative responses from you all…..

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Dr Tony Balls » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:27 am

Larsongs wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:54 am
I remember when Computers were the size of a room, weighed tons & had very little power & ability.. Welcome to the 20th Century!

Wonder what Leo would think about how this can’t be done? It’s impossible! Heresy! It would have to weigh 60lbs & be as big as a Twin etc…

I’d almost bet there’s a guy who could come up with a couple standard size, weigh literally nothing, great sounding Pedals that would work with either a standard Fender or Vox Amp that could accomplish the goal. They could even be Tube Driven…

I think there are different possibilities…

I’m very surprised by the negative responses from you all…..
Its becoming very clear to me that you dont really know what you're talking about in terms of amp construction, and dont seem to accept the reality of what's being explained to you. It's nice that you "think there are different possibilities" but there arent (at least within the bounds of what has been discussed here).

ADDENDUM: I'm also LOL'ing hard at all the "what would Leo think" talk. He'd consult the RCA Receiving Tube Manual and realize these are physical impossibilities and get on with his life.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Larsongs » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:46 am

Dr Tony Balls wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:27 am
Larsongs wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:54 am
I remember when Computers were the size of a room, weighed tons & had very little power & ability.. Welcome to the 20th Century!

Wonder what Leo would think about how this can’t be done? It’s impossible! Heresy! It would have to weigh 60lbs & be as big as a Twin etc…

I’d almost bet there’s a guy who could come up with a couple standard size, weigh literally nothing, great sounding Pedals that would work with either a standard Fender or Vox Amp that could accomplish the goal. They could even be Tube Driven…

I think there are different possibilities…

I’m very surprised by the negative responses from you all…..
Its becoming very clear to me that you dont really know what you're talking about in terms of amp construction, and dont seem to accept the reality of what's being explained to you. It's nice that you "think there are different possibilities" but there arent (at least within the bounds of what has been discussed here).

ADDENDUM: I'm also LOL'ing hard at all the "what would Leo think" talk. He'd consult the RCA Receiving Tube Manual and realize these are physical impossibilities and get on with his life.
Ah, so now you're back to impossible.. I'm LOL as to your lack of so called "thinking outside the Box"...

I'd bet Leo would say, screw the manual & tinker til he did it... Like a Genius..

There are Companies already building Amps that are available for sale that come close to doing this... How long before someone gets it right? 6 months, a year.. Nothing is impossible if you set your mind & hands to it...

Still, I'm blown away by the negative!

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by andy_tchp » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:32 pm

I'm confused, is this still the idea or not?
Larsongs wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:52 pm
The idea is to have a small 20-30 Watt Combo Tube Amp
Because you've started talking about computers (which yes, also used to use vacuum tubes but moved to transistors a very very long time ago. Yes, way back in the 20th century).

And in further replies, moved to small effects pedals that emulate the desired sound.

Neither of which are burdened with the weight of output transformers like a Combo Tube Amp.


If the goalposts have shifted that far and it's essentially open to anything, the answer is easy: buy a Kemper, load the desired amp profiles and pair it with their lightweight speaker cabinet.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Maggieo » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 pm

horseblanket wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:27 am
The Mesa Blue Angel fits that bill. It's what Joe Gore played on the old PJ Harvey stuff.
Out of production but you can find them used:
https://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out- ... angel.html
I asked Joe about it and here's what he said:
Joe Gore
Wow, great question. It was my sole amp during my PJ Harvey days. (Mine's been broken for years, and this is a good reminder to get it fixed.) It's basically Mesa's take on a Vox design, and it doesn't sound particularly "Mesa-like," though it has Mesa's usual build quality. (Yeah, mine broke, but it's 27 years old, and it saw heavy use.) The thing is, back when I got the amp, there weren't many Vox-style amp options, and being American, I didn't grow up with Voxes. So EL-84 amps, with their electrifying crackle and ultra-responsive dynamics, were a revelation. Nowadays there are so many cool Vox options, and I've been utterly smitten by my Carr Lincoln, Steve C's take on Vox designs. So I'm honestly not sure how much of my affection for the Blue Angel was about the amp specifically, and how much it was about new-for-me Vox sounds. BTW, I used the head-only version. My (strictly personal) preference is for lighter cabs with retro speakers, relative to most Mesa cabs.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Larsongs » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:35 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 pm
horseblanket wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:27 am
The Mesa Blue Angel fits that bill. It's what Joe Gore played on the old PJ Harvey stuff.
Out of production but you can find them used:
https://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out- ... angel.html
I asked Joe about it and here's what he said:
Joe Gore
Wow, great question. It was my sole amp during my PJ Harvey days. (Mine's been broken for years, and this is a good reminder to get it fixed.) It's basically Mesa's take on a Vox design, and it doesn't sound particularly "Mesa-like," though it has Mesa's usual build quality. (Yeah, mine broke, but it's 27 years old, and it saw heavy use.) The thing is, back when I got the amp, there weren't many Vox-style amp options, and being American, I didn't grow up with Voxes. So EL-84 amps, with their electrifying crackle and ultra-responsive dynamics, were a revelation. Nowadays there are so many cool Vox options, and I've been utterly smitten by my Carr Lincoln, Steve C's take on Vox designs. So I'm honestly not sure how much of my affection for the Blue Angel was about the amp specifically, and how much it was about new-for-me Vox sounds. BTW, I used the head-only version. My (strictly personal) preference is for lighter cabs with retro speakers, relative to most Mesa cabs.
That’s an interesting Amp! Checking the Site but does Mesa make something new like that now?

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Maggieo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:57 am

Larsongs wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:35 pm
Maggieo wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 pm
horseblanket wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:27 am
The Mesa Blue Angel fits that bill. It's what Joe Gore played on the old PJ Harvey stuff.
Out of production but you can find them used:
https://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out- ... angel.html
I asked Joe about it and here's what he said:
Joe Gore
Wow, great question. It was my sole amp during my PJ Harvey days. (Mine's been broken for years, and this is a good reminder to get it fixed.) It's basically Mesa's take on a Vox design, and it doesn't sound particularly "Mesa-like," though it has Mesa's usual build quality. (Yeah, mine broke, but it's 27 years old, and it saw heavy use.) The thing is, back when I got the amp, there weren't many Vox-style amp options, and being American, I didn't grow up with Voxes. So EL-84 amps, with their electrifying crackle and ultra-responsive dynamics, were a revelation. Nowadays there are so many cool Vox options, and I've been utterly smitten by my Carr Lincoln, Steve C's take on Vox designs. So I'm honestly not sure how much of my affection for the Blue Angel was about the amp specifically, and how much it was about new-for-me Vox sounds. BTW, I used the head-only version. My (strictly personal) preference is for lighter cabs with retro speakers, relative to most Mesa cabs.
That’s an interesting Amp! Checking the Site but does Mesa make something new like that now?
You know, I don't know. I think there might be a dual channel one.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Larsongs » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:31 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:57 am
Larsongs wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:35 pm
Maggieo wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 pm


I asked Joe about it and here's what he said:

That’s an interesting Amp! Checking the Site but does Mesa make something new like that now?
You know, I don't know. I think there might be a dual channel one.
They have several dual channel Amps, even 3 channels. But, I'm not seeing any that have the capability to play via EL84's & 6V6's individually & simultaneously with a Blend control like that Blue Angel had... There are a couple YouTubes that do a good job of demoing the Sound capabilities.. It's a really good sounding Amp in the YouTube..
Last edited by Larsongs on Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by Maggieo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:47 pm

Well, shit.
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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by HarlowTheFish » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:02 pm

Larsongs wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:31 pm
They have several dual channel Amps, even 3 channels. But, I'm not seeing any that have the capability to play via EL84's & 6V6's individually & simultaneously with a Blend control like that Blue Angel had... There are a couple YouTubes that do a good job of demoing the Sound capabilities.. It's a really good sounding Amp in the YouTube..
H&K Triamp MkIII
6 preamp channels
3 sets of power tubes (150W max IIRC) that can take pretty much anything under the sun
You can set any channel to use any set of tubes or combination thereof
The catch is it's a head that's almost 200lbs and costs several grand. That's pretty much the only practical way to get what you want, and since it's MIDI switchable, you can just run some really nice spring reverb and tremolo in the loop and one of those cabinet switchers with a MIDI controller out front.

The Blue Angel IIRC didn't last very long and was only one channel, with the Transatlantic (EL84 only IIRC), Stilleto (EL-34) and later Triple Crown (6L6/EL34) taking the spot of the more British-voiced Mesas.

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Re: What Amps have EL84 & 6V6 Tubes..

Post by noisepunk » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:46 pm

leo would've found an affordable "close enough" work around, because he was ultimately a businessman (and, importantly, not an actual musician), and wouldn't have cared about some purity nonsense like having the "right" output tubes... and i seriously doubt fender customers during his time there would've really cared either.
Larsongs wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:38 am
If you’re a musician that only plays one genre or one style one Amp is fine.. But, if you have to play all kinds of stuff & want the right sound you need the right Amps… IMO.. Hence the thought behind this Thread..
::)

this isn't a unique dilemma, most of us just don't care this much... and those of us who do just deal with the drawbacks of bringing multiple amps; but even professional musicians don't fuss with this all that often, which is another reason why no one has bothered to design something like this.

you know how most people handle this dilemma? they find something clean, with a decently versatile EQ, and leave the rest to pedals... or they get a modeling amp and come to peace with the fact that them and the gear nerds will be the only people in the room to notice or care.

obviously you don't have be satisfied with these options, but it's frankly absurd (and rude) to discount someone else's practical experience with amp building and design as "not thinking outside the box" when you aren't even willing to do your own research on this, let alone try to make the thing (if anything is possible, buy a few books and study up on amp design).

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