Re: Jag mute setup questions

For help with setups and other technical issues.
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Owen
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Jag mute setup questions

Post by Owen » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:33 pm

Just bought a jag mute tonight on US ebay, as the UK don't have any anywhere...  ???

Basically I want to think ahead before it arrives as I'll be installing it into a CIJ Jag....

- what are the dimensions of the hole that I'll need to drill ?
- What can I use for foam ? I heard mouse mats being mentioned- anything else ? and what adhesive would I use ?
- It seems to come with nut and bolt attached .. is that the complete plunger ? If not, what else is needed ?
- How does the unit actually operate ?
- any other advice ? things to watch out for ?

any help would be appreciated.

thanks
O
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by sookwinder » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:31 pm

You need a slug and a sprin, you will need 2 mounting scews.  Foam can be bought from guitar parts suppliers or you can use winow sealant foam or similar.

btw there is lots of info in the library section

================
This is from the fitting AV running gear to a CIJ Jag   thread in the library

The hole for the mute slug and spring needed to be drilled into the body. I used the existing hole in the guard to get to correct placement.  It should be noted that modern mute springs are shorter and stiffer than vintage mute springs, so after some trial error I determined that the top of the slug needed to be a few mm below the surface of the body (as compared to flush with the body on vintage Jaguars)  The depth of the hole maywell be the same for modern and vintage mutes, with just the length of the spring causing the discrepancy in height.
Image
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this is from my USCG bass VI project where I used a jaguar guatrd to locate the position for the mute hole, loacated in the library

Image
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here is some info on mutes from the library

Recently I had to install a Jaguar mute into a CIJ Jaguar which had not been routed for the mute slug and spring. 

While doing this  I noticed that the mute spring now available as a Fender part (I assume used on the AV Jaguars) was considerably short and stiffer than the vintage spring. Also the "cut off" screw/bolt that is in the mute itself is a lot shorter in the modern mute set up.

What this means is that when using a modern mute and spring/slug combo, one may need to route the slug hole a little deeper than you would have if you were using a vintage spring.  It takes more force to compress the modern spring and at the same time the compression distance is less. 

So where as with the vintage spring if the hole was a little shallow, you could just press down harder when fitting the mute, it doesn't quite work out the same for the modern mute.  A modern spring "jams up" (compresses up) in a shorter distance and is not as pliable as the older vintage spring.

The following pictures may halp in showing what I mean.  [note also that besides the modern screw/bolt being shorter, it also has a different style head and that a brass washer is used as well as the star washer in modern mute set ups.]
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
=============================
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by Owen » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:21 am

Thanks for your reply... much appreciated !!.

Concerning the 'spring/slug combo' - the spring I'm fine about but what about the other part ?

I've heard a cylindrical part being used... ? is this placed at the top of the spring which touches the mute ?

Also do these parts to parts need to be connected ?

- How does it actually function ? as you flip the mute does the spring just shift or bend from one side to the other holding it in place ?

sorry for the daft questions... in my head it's telling me that it wont really work....  ::)

thanks
O
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by painted wood » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:43 am

You can buy the slug and spring from angela.

I too have a mute question...I purchased a vintage mute with vintage screw and also an AVRI spring and slug from angela...I plan on buying a guitarmill body, so will all of these parts assemble together properly? or will the vintage screw be too long and compress up the spring?

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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by Owen » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:52 am

Am I right in saying the spring is loaded underneath the slug ?

anyone have a pic of the setup ?

Where does the bolt/screw come in ?  does it actually connect to the slug ?

Please help... this just doesn't make sense !!
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by sookwinder » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:43 pm

this pic is from our friends as the higher evolution of offset guitars
http://www.webrocker.de/jaguar/cms/2007 ... -assembly/

Image

in short the mut works as follows.
1. the slug and the spring sit in the hole in the body. the slug on top.
2. the hole has to be sufficiently  wide enough so  as you press the slug into the body, nothing gets stuck. In fact if you look at a lot of vintage jag bodies, the slug hole is a pretty roughly drilled hole... just get it wide enough.
3.  the mute (including secured thin bolt) in placed on top of the slug and pushed down wards. then two screws are used to screw to mute to the body. these screws are not screwed in all the way, but rather to a point where the mute cab rock backwards and forwards.
4. the rocking of the mute back and forth (once pressure is applied by the player in one or another direction) causes the attached bolt on the mute to go to one side/egde of the slug.  The bolt is at a diagonal angle to the top of the slug (effectively shorter) and allows the slug/spring to slightly rise.  If the mute is adjusted in the other position, it will go to the other side of teh slug... but has to go through a point where the mute is parallel with the body and so the bolt is facing downwatds, making the slug and spring compress more and so  the whole system wants to relieve the force and allows it to easily move to the position where the mutes bolt is at an angle resting on the side of the slug.

set it up with out the bridge fitted and just play around with it, you'll soon learn how it works.

as to whether a vinatge mute can work with a moderb spring... yeah it should, you just have to maybe stick something (removable) at the  bottom of the slug hole, if the slug /spring combo sits too low.

again just set it up and have a play with the mute
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by Owen » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:17 pm

sookwinder wrote: this pic is from our friends as the higher evolution of offset guitars
http://www.webrocker.de/jaguar/cms/2007 ... -assembly/

Image

in short the mut works as follows.
1. the slug and the spring sit in the hole in the body. the slug on top.
2. the hole has to be sufficiently  wide enough so  as you press the slug into the body, nothing gets stuck. In fact if you look at a lot of vintage jag bodies, the slug hole is a pretty roughly drilled hole... just get it wide enough.
3.  the mute (including secured thin bolt) in placed on top of the slug and pushed down wards. then two screws are used to screw to mute to the body. these screws are not screwed in all the way, but rather to a point where the mute cab rock backwards and forwards.
4. the rocking of the mute back and forth (once pressure is applied by the player in one or another direction) causes the attached bolt on the mute to go to one side/egde of the slug.  The bolt is at a diagonal angle to the top of the slug (effectively shorter) and allows the slug/spring to slightly rise.  If the mute is adjusted in the other position, it will go to the other side of teh slug... but has to go through a point where the mute is parallel with the body and so the bolt is facing downwatds, making the slug and spring compress more and so  the whole system wants to relieve the force and allows it to easily move to the position where the mutes bolt is at an angle resting on the side of the slug.

set it up with out the bridge fitted and just play around with it, you'll soon learn how it works.

as to whether a vinatge mute can work with a moderb spring... yeah it should, you just have to maybe stick something (removable) at the  bottom of the slug hole, if the slug /spring combo sits too low.

again just set it up and have a play with the mute
Thanks very much... that answers everything i needed to know !! Really appreciate your explanation ;)

I'll let you all know how I get on.

one more question... I'm doing a DIY slug and spring, would it be beneficial for the slug to have recess in it for the spring ?

thanks again
O
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by sookwinder » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:25 pm

while not technically needed, the slug (vintage and modern) does have a recess in it to fit the spring.
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by Owen » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:30 pm

Excellent thanks ;)
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by _nash » Fri May 06, 2011 12:14 pm

I realize this is a very old thread but it seemed like the right place to ask:
What's under the spring? anything at all? Wood? a metal slug?

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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by smokehouse4444 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:05 pm

I hope someone will see this and answer. This mute setup is just killing me. First, I had no idea, so I had the spring above the slug with the screw from the mute sticking in it. Then I searched here and saw that the spring goes under the slug. I finally got my new pickguard in, so trying to set it up correctly with the mute. The spring is under the slug. The slug has a hole in it. This goes downwards, correct? The spring goes up into the hole of the slug, and the screw from the mute is supposed to slide around on top of the flat part of the slug, correct? How damn deep does it have to be if this is the setup? I did it this way and it's up to high. It sits almost a half inch above the guitar. The bridge would not even be resting in its holes. I'm so frustrated right now. My wife and I are both trying to figure it out. She insists if we drill down lower it's going to be close to going through the guitar. Why is this so f#$%ing difficult? Any help would be SO appreciated. Arrrggghhh!!!
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by ludobag1 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:16 am

like sookwinder says the plunger need to be at the same level as the body (just under the guard ) when it is mount without the mute in place
then the deep of the hole is that (depend if you have vintage or ri spring)
i have mount a vintage on my cij and yes the hole is deep :o but the more harder for me be to have the right drill i have to finish the hole with a router bit of 12.7 mm (the right size in inch)
mine works but it is not smouth as a real (maybe i will have to sand a little the inside of the hole)but in fact is only ,on and off then the little effort needed to change position doesn't bored me (and with time it become less harder)
after installation you will need to set up this thing it is not harder but very boring ;)
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by smokehouse4444 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:49 pm

Thank you so much for the answer. At this point I am just going to leave the mute off. Didn't like drilling so deep. On down the line, I will work on it again because I just think the Jag needs the mute. Just one of those thangs! I will be able to refer to this to help me set it up. Thanks again.
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Re: Jag mute setup questions

Post by verhoevenc » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:15 pm

I too was confused by this thread. The picture, although most likely meant to be helpful, was actually part of the problem! The updates, edits, and ambiguous phrasing used in it made it difficult to trust... even if correct. After a bunch of reading though I believe I figured it out, so I took some pictures to help others! Here's how I did it on my "Meeting" model that I'm in the process of building:
Heres the bridge assembled with the mute.
Image
Image
When you remove the bridge you can see what each hole in the mute assembly is for.
Image
These are the screws that physically keep it attached the the body.
Image
When you undo the screws the assembly has the screw sticking out of the bottom. This screw butts up against the FLAT PART OF THE PLUNGER!!!!! THE SPRING NEVER ACTUALLY TOUCHES THE ASSEMBLY IT IS BENEATH THE PLUGGER STICKING INTO THE INSET PART ON THE BOTTOM TO KEEP THE SPRING CENTERED.
Image
To reiterate that point here is the plunge/spring combo coming out of the hole.
Image
And yes, it IS a very deep hole, not like you'd expect.
Image
A drill press will be your best friend here because you can take the 1/2" brad point bit, calculate how deep you need to go, and then use a something as a measurement to set your press's positive stop at. That way you can safely drill without worrying about going through. My body is 1.7" thick with an additional .1" for the pickguard. In this last picture, the shim I'm using to measure against for my positive stop is 7/32" thick (or just under 1/4").
Image
I hope this helps folks moving forward,
Chris
Chris

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