Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?/NGD

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue May 14, 2019 6:21 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 am
Or so I'd think- honestly, since there is an actual expert on here I'd likely just submit the budget and rough requirements like all solid wood construction to Brad and just buy what he suggested.
As kind as this is, it may not be the best advice. :)

I certainly would not describe myself as an expert on classical guitar, nor on nylon-string instruments specifically. I do have some experience (and some opinions), but there are people who play classical guitar professionally and who work incrementally toward the best sound possible (in the same way I do on electric guitar). They would be the experts, and not me!

I'm unsure if anyone on this forum fits that description. But even so, perhaps even they wouldn't have their finger on the pulse of the sub-$500 market. :)

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue May 14, 2019 6:32 am

Very self effacing of you, but I can assure you that you are expert enough for the likes of me, regardless. I suppose I know the rough ideas of buying a classical guitar around common tone woods and all solid construction being ideal, and I could throw money at something and hope for the best.

Otherwise, I don't know much... for instance, I employ some students who play classical guitar as a class, and I ask them to bring in their instruments sometimes (I bring in my own sometimes).

I play their guitars a bit, and I am always struck with what might be a simple question and one I don't even know the answer to:

"Does the action of a nylon strung instrument have to be sky high?"

And I really don't know. I imagine that the nylon strings simply have a lot less tension than steel strings and so vibrate a lot more, thus necessitating a need for higher action.

Still, based on what I see in music stores and from the students, I have to wonder if there isn't some room for lowering the action. But I have never set one up myself to know what is and is not possible or practical.
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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Bert Camenbert » Tue May 14, 2019 12:33 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 am
Incidentally, I would never buy any kind of "crossover" classical guitar that attempts to be more like a steel string acoustic. How can you learn that way?Why would you cheat yourself of the experience of learning a new instrument and learning to play it as it is? Of course it will be challenging to have to adapt to a new instrument with new demands, but why else would you bother?
Yeah, but I think that, like other guitars, typical classical guitar necks can have a range of sizes. I prefer smaller necks that are still classical guitar necks, that is, no truss rod, flat radius and optimized for plucking.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 pm

I always thought that classical guitars were basically 2", and that if you deviated from that it was a "crossover" neck of some kind. I could be wrong.
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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Bert Camenbert » Tue May 14, 2019 1:06 pm

Now you got me doubting: when I was trying out classical guitars, I really got the impression that there was variation. Did I imagine things?

No, wait, the wikipedia page on classical guitars says that "typical modern six-string classical guitars are 48–54 mm wide at the nut."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical ... cteristics

But, I gotta tell you, the La Patrie Concert I have is 2" wide at the nut! :w00t:

However, the neck profile on my old Yamaha is pretty much semi-circular, whereas the La Patrie seems to be shallower. Maybe that's why the La Patrie feels smaller.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue May 14, 2019 8:38 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 am

Incidentally, I would never buy any kind of "crossover" classical guitar that attempts to be more like a steel string acoustic. How can you learn that way? Why would you cheat yourself of the experience of learning a new instrument and learning to play it as it is? Of course it will be challenging to have to adapt to a new instrument with new demands, but why else would you bother?
I agree with this notion. I have regular acoustics and electrics. Part of the branch out for me is for the challenge and not to do what I already know.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by StevenO » Wed May 15, 2019 2:26 am

There's a big distinction to wanting to play classical guitar and wanting to play a nylon-string classical-style guitar. Of course you can do both, but the former will dictate a lot more of what you should buy than the latter. The former tends to dictate that action should be higher for better tonal reasons and to get those nice clean-sounding notes that take years of practice to perfect. The latter just means that you should buy whatever fits the bill for what your hands and ears like. Most nylon string guitars should allow for lowering of action, barring fretboard or bridge height not allowing for it. I prefer lower action, myself, in the Flamenco tradition. Look to see how much saddle life there is on any guitar, new or old, and that will dictate the amount of action you will be able to relieve off of the guitar if you decide you want lower action.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed May 15, 2019 10:34 am

Worth pointing out that action doesn't mean quite as much for playability on a nylon- or gut-string guitar, just because the strings are so much easier to move.

Higher action on a guitar with heavy steel strings can give you tendinitis. High action on a nylon-string with medium-tension strings isn't quite so impossible.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Fri May 17, 2019 9:30 pm

Anyone have any idea what this is at the 18:10 mark?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cZSKNnxgseI

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Telliot » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:17 am

I've got a mid-80s Takamine C132S, that was my very first guitar. It was my only guitar for the better part of about 10 years before I bought my first Strat. Sounds great, and solidly made. If you look for a used one from the same period, you'll often find them ~$300-400, with a HSC. The early ones don’t have an adjustable truss, and this guitar spent the majority of its life with the typical high action of a classical guitar, but I recently sanded down the saddle and now it’s a very comfortable 3mm at the 12th fret (bass side), with no buzzing and perfect intonation. Mine sounds very similar to this.

Image
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:36 pm

I tried out a ton of these last weekend. A handful of Córdoba C5s, some older cheap yamahas, an ibanez, and some other miscellaneous ones that I can't remember the names of. Of all of those mentioned I feel as though the c5s were the best, but not by much. The c5s weren't easy to play nor did they sound great, but they did seem to be pretty decently constructed compared to the others.

My search endes when I played a Córdoba Fusion maple. I know others have said that the "fusion" defeats the purpose of a classical, but in my opinion the fusion still feels like a classical when compared to a normal steel string acoustic. It is a bit closer to a steel string, but not enough that I would feel I was being robbed of an experience. The tone, build and playability seemed to be better from this instrument than the other guitars including the c5 cordobas.. Granted it was a few hundred more. I think the c5s were around 300 and the fusion was around 700 if I remember right. Than being the case, I might be saving my pennies a bit for it.

What's even cooler if after further research, I found that they make a fusion one in rosewood which looks super fly.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?/NGD

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:55 am

It appears that my search is over. My wife had casually asked a few days ago what kind of classical guitars I was checking out the other day. I had told her the Córdoba fusion line had been my favorite. I didn't think anything else about it. Last night she stated that a reverb seller accepted her offer on a Córdoba Fusion Rosewood model. She said she wanted to grab something sentimental for my first Father's Day gift...I'm stoked. After playing a ton of different models, the fusion is what I loved the most. And it comes with a super nice hard shell humicase. In short, this guitar isn't exactly as cheap as I was originally looking for, but really ticks all the cool factor boxes for me.

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?/NGD

Post by StevenO » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:58 am

Awesome! Great wife, too!

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?/NGD

Post by marqueemoon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 am

Nice!

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Re: Cheap Classical Acoustic Reccomendations?/NGD

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:06 am

I know. She outdone herself. I'll try to post some pics when it arrives!

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