Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

[eggwheat]

I see. Still not pretty and looks a nasty design to me having looked up that gotoh bridge.. The original fender XII bridge looked much more elegant.

They must have the tooling for the orignal since the used it with the squire Venus.. it’s bizarre to me.

[Despot]

OK, now this, I like. This is what I would hope to be seeing out of Fender.

I see that their strategy for NAMM literally is throw everything at the wall and see what sticks, and I can also see that some of it will be good ideas.

I would buy one of these.

This will be the only guitar I buy for some time. I've been eyeing up old Electric XIIs for a while looking for a refin at the right price, but Project Housing means that's no longer an option.

But this I can do. I've even put money aside for something for the house that can wait (we don't actually need a sofa after all) ... we can stand and I can play this on a strap. Nice nice nice.

[Despot]

Also - on the "why can't they make them like the vintage ones" ... yeah ... I hear you. But I just don't care as much as perhaps I would about a Jazzmaster or Jaguar reissue.

A XII for me is a 'use when needed' instrument rather than a main instrument. It's something that's nice to have, but not essential. I like Fenders ... but I haven't liked the 12 string Strats (or whatever) that Fender has made, because it just looked wrong.

While this isn't 100% accurate ... it's close enough for me. For the price, and for what it'll be ... if these sound good I'll be having one.

[Larry Mal]

Right. In this case I would overlook the Made in Mexico thing, since it's something I would use very little.

[eggwheat]

Yes it's just certain elements are intrinsic to the Fender XII. When I see I a seemingly silly design decision aspect it worries me about the rest of the design..

They came up with a great, elegantly designed XII bridge in 1965. They obviously have the tooling, as they brought it back before on a cheap Squier model. They had the chance to do it right..they chose not to, probably to make a saving somewhere.

They bettered Rickenbacker in many ways. Although not the tone...the Fender sounds anaemic in comparison, although the sound has it's uses.

Anyway the big one is the neck...if they fuck that up it's all over.

[Pacafeliz]

Edit: seen it comes in a gigbag, no hard case...

It's a c£750 MIM Fender - would be fairly unlikely to get a hard case included. Wonder if they'll make any though?

Yeah I meant that...

[BearBoy]

They came up with a great, elegantly designed XII bridge in 1965. They obviously have the tooling, as they brought it back before on a cheap Squier model. They had the chance to do it right..they chose not to, probably to make a saving somewhere.

The Squier Venus XIIs had an RRP of $999 back in 1997 (approx $1450 today) so were quite a bit more expensive than these MIM Fenders...

Pedantry aside, I totally agree with your point though. I've never played a guitar with one of those Gotoh bridges - maybe they're actually an improvement, functionally if not aesthetically, over the original XII ones? Suspect it's more likely to be a cost thing however.

[shadowplay]

Yes it's just certain elements are intrinsic to the Fender XII. When I see I a seemingly silly design decision aspect it worries me about the rest of the design..

They came up with a great, elegantly designed XII bridge in 1965. They obviously have the tooling, as they brought it back before on a cheap Squier model. They had the chance to do it right..they chose not to, probably to make a saving somewhere.

Possibly that part was made by a company they don't use anymore or might even no longer exist. I see this with metal trim parts for clothing and accessories all the time, I ask if they can still do some old style and get told that that part came from X and we don't deal with X anymore and the one time they went and did me a favour and asked they said they'd scrapped/lost the die since it had been ten years.

D

[FIREBOT]

so...

I've owned a Venus XII, a Stratocaster XII from the early 00's (with the Gotoh bridge), an original 66 XII, and am currently playing a 88 Stratocaster XII (with the 60's style bridge, in that order. Each was replaced by the next, trying to get to a better version. Here are some observations...

People who think the tooling still exists on the Squires are forgetting that the Venus went out of production 20 years ago. There is a very good chance the tooling was discarded, or worn out, and isn't available. When you see recent Custom Shop guitars using the bridge, it isn't uncommon for a company to stash a small amount of a part like that for such uses, but that doesn't mean the tooling still exists.

Having that three guitars with the 60's style bridge, and one with the Gotoh, the Gotoh is a slight improvement. You can adjust the hight of each pair of strings, where the 60's version has fixed heights, like a Mustang. It allows you to dial it in a hair more, and it is meaningful.

The 60's pickups were by far the best. The reason I got rid of the 60's one was the neck was a little bit wonky. Remember, back then people strung up guitars with 12's or heavier. A 1960's 12 string set put an enormous amount of tension on the neck. I could never get the action where I wanted. I had many conversations with other XII owners and repair shops, and this seems to be the case with more 60's XII's than not. There are ways to counteract this, but you end up in the vintage guitar dilemma of "if I fix this properly, I will decrease the originality and the value". It was a pretty clean example, so I didn't. I chose to leave it unmolested, and get a guitar i can tweek to my preferences.

Interestingly, the 1980's XII's have a shorter scale (24" or 24.75"... I can't remember which), presumably to avoid the neck issues of the 60's.

I bought a set of Novak XII pickups with the intent to rout the 88' and install, but now with these coming, I will save them for one of these. I suspect it could be perfect for me if the neck isn't too narrow.

[higgsblossom]

It's something I would use very little.

My GAS tells me to get it and play it as much as I can, but my experience says I should stick to the simplicity of my current setup

[akpasta]

What Firebot says is spot on. I’ll add some as well.

For me the neck is 99% of why the electric XII is my favorite 12 of any I’ve played. The width at the nut is essential and the long scale as well. The 60s necks of course had a 7.25” radius whereas this one is flatter 9.5”, I prefer a rounder fretboard makes it easier to play somehow but we’ll see if it’s a deal breaker. I haven’t compared the other measurements but If the neck is close it will be a huge win.

Second, Firebot is correct, the 60s pickups are nasaly and “anemic.” Curtis Novak told me he identified why and fixed it. I swapped Curtis Novak pickups in and it CHIMES FOR DAYS. Essential upgrade.

Onto the bridge (and to lesser extent the nut). If you look at vintage 12s the string pairs were unusually close together meaning the string pairs buzz against each other almost like fret buzz when you play individual notes. I have been able to solve this issues with some reversible modifications like a new nut and spacers between the bridge saddles but the new bridge and redesigned nut/neck might solve em from the get go.

Also like Firebot says, you can not adjust individual string height on the vintage saddles. Having spent a lot of time adjusting my 12 I can tell you the original bridge may be “elegant” but it is way over engineered, or under depending how you look at it. It’s funny to think of how much more simple and more functional the Gotoh bridge is. My guess is Leo designed these big weird, specifically sized string saddles and giant intonation screws because the factories in those days couldn’t make things as tiny as Gotoh bridges with their miniature hex screws and locking screws. The Gotoh bridge is a pretty functional compact design.

I’m defintely getting one. I need an electric xii I can gig and lug around and not worry if it gets damaged. If the neck really bugs me I’ll replace it with vintage. Same with the pickups (Novak’s). I’m excited!!

[akpasta]

I forgot something else: They might make a case that actually fucking fits a electric xii!!!

The vintage cases suck and there’s basically no alternative.

[baseggio]

Nice analysis from Firebot and akpasta. I've played an old XII in a store and I've got the recent CIJ Stratocaster XII, and the newer neck does feel a bit cramped. Fine for chords, but arpeggios are difficult.

Interesting thoughts about the bridge. I'm less concerned about that than the fact that the resonant strings don't go through the body.

Either way, I've really got my eye on one.

[akpasta]

Nice analysis from Firebot and akpasta. I've played an old XII in a store and I've got the recent CIJ Stratocaster XII, and the newer neck does feel a bit cramped. Fine for chords, but arpeggios are difficult.

Interesting thoughts about the bridge. I'm less concerned about that than the fact that the resonant strings don't go through the body.

Either way, I've really got my eye on one.

I have to compare the nuts and necks but a true xii neck is different from any subsequent fender 12 neck. Longer scale and I believe wider nut. Someone please compare to this. I will at work lol.

As for the resonant strings. Half of them go through the body on this reissue.

[Bouts_n_Stouts]

No matching headstock? I'm out! Just kidding. As happy as I am to finally see this the top is too pointy for me. It looks a bit weird. I know its just a shave thinner than the original but still. Reguardless I'd still love to play ut and hear how it sounds!