I hear you. The pitches of the strings behind the bridge are different. However I would not describe them as "atonal". On traditionally-placed trems the pitch is about a perfect fourth, and on the modern-placed trems it's a perfect fifth, far from atonal. The modern placed behind-the-bridge strings do have a shorter sustain though.BoringPostcards wrote:The main thing that makes it an issue for me, is that I often play behind the bridge and the CP position doesn't have the same notes because of the shorter distance, which also affects the overtones. The vintage placement has usable notes and the overtones aren't atonal.d-f wrote:For folks making a big deal out of the trem placement: I compared the modern placement with a bunch of vintage placed trems a few weeks ago and there wasn't a huge difference. The updated trem placement added tension to the strings comparable to a guitar with vintage placement and a shim.
This is obviously not an issue for everyone.
It also looks odd and cramped. More so on the Jaguar, due the chrome control plate.
Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
- d-f
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
- Remulak
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Yeah but Bull in the Heather doesn't sound right!d-f wrote:BoringPostcards wrote: I hear you. The pitches of the strings behind the bridge are different. However I would not describe them as "atonal". On traditionally-placed trems the pitch is about a perfect fourth, and on the modern-placed trems it's a perfect fifth, far from atonal. The modern placed behind-the-bridge strings do have a shorter sustain though.
I keep coming back to the JMJM as I love the neck radius and massive frets more than a more 'vintage' model.
- enkindler
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Only half serious: I haven't seen anyone get within half a semi tone of Bull in the heather It may be my ear that is off but I think with his increased neck angle and a already tall tonepro ToM that is isn't really close to a 4th from his (G G D D D# D#) tuning on that song.Remulak wrote:Yeah but Bull in the Heather doesn't sound right!d-f wrote:BoringPostcards wrote: I hear you. The pitches of the strings behind the bridge are different. However I would not describe them as "atonal". On traditionally-placed trems the pitch is about a perfect fourth, and on the modern-placed trems it's a perfect fifth, far from atonal. The modern placed behind-the-bridge strings do have a shorter sustain though.
I keep coming back to the JMJM as I love the neck radius and massive frets more than a more 'vintage' model.
I am sure someone has figured out the right mix of strings and neck angle, strings and bridge but as I was doing setups and have the Peterson tuner out
American Jaguar Professional distance from bridge to front of trem 4 21/32"
Jagurillo (blacktop like) 3 25/32"
Custom shop 1958 Jazzmaster distance from bridge to front of trem - 4 23/32"
E2 - B#4/C4 (6.5 semitones)
A2 - D5 (4 semitones)
D3 - G5 (5 semitones)
G3 - C6/C#6 (5.75 semitones)
B3 - D#6 (3 semitones)
E4 - G#6/A6 (4.75 semitones)
Custom shop 1962 Jazzmaster distance from bridge to front of trem 4 22/32"
E2 - C5 (8 semitones)
A2 - D5/D#5 (5.75 semitones)
D3 - G5 (5 semitones)
G3 - B5/C6 (4.5 semitones)
B3 = D#6/E6 (4.25 semitones)
E4 G#6 (4 semitones)
Both of the Jazzmasters have 11s on them, but while it is in the ball park of a perfect 4th (5 semitones) most humans hear something is out of tune with just +-12 cents. As there are 100 cents per semitone most of the strings on both are way off from that. Add in the error for equal temperament and it is probably only individual guitars that will work for bull in a the heather.
Seeing as the D is pretty close to a perfect 4th I am pretty sure that Thurston chose the note due to the wolf tones he was seeing.
Anyway I have no dog in this fight I just had the tools out and wanted to see if all the strings behind the bridge were a 4th, but at least now I know why the D string is always the one that gives me wolf tones.
- BoringPostcards
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Now I want to listen to Experimental Jet Set Trash and No Star.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.
- higgsblossom
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Now I want to write a song that uses both vintage and modern "behing the string"-soundsBoringPostcards wrote:Now I want to listen to Experimental Jet Set Trash and No Star.
"500€? That's the price of a J Mascis Jazzmaster!"
- d-f
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Awesome thanks for taking those measurements! Any chance you have a jag with the "modern" placement for comparison?enkindler wrote:Both of the Jazzmasters have 11s on them, but while it is in the ball park of a perfect 4th (5 semitones) most humans hear something is out of tune with just +-12 cents. As there are 100 cents per semitone most of the strings on both are way off from that. Add in the error for equal temperament and it is probably only individual guitars that will work for bull in a the heather.
Seeing as the D is pretty close to a perfect 4th I am pretty sure that Thurston chose the note due to the wolf tones he was seeing.
Anyway I have no dog in this fight I just had the tools out and wanted to see if all the strings behind the bridge were a 4th, but at least now I know why the D string is always the one that gives me wolf tones.
- enkindler
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
I don't have my bench tuner set up today but here is an approximation from my stroboplus, note that the two E strings have screws that will interfere with those strings particularly the E2. As I can't see the cents on this tuner I am trying to be the closet as possible note, those with two notes are sitting in the middle.d-f wrote:Awesome thanks for taking those measurements! Any chance you have a jag with the "modern" placement for comparison?enkindler wrote:Both of the Jazzmasters have 11s on them, but while it is in the ball park of a perfect 4th (5 semitones) most humans hear something is out of tune with just +-12 cents. As there are 100 cents per semitone most of the strings on both are way off from that. Add in the error for equal temperament and it is probably only individual guitars that will work for bull in a the heather.
Seeing as the D is pretty close to a perfect 4th I am pretty sure that Thurston chose the note due to the wolf tones he was seeing.
Anyway I have no dog in this fight I just had the tools out and wanted to see if all the strings behind the bridge were a 4th, but at least now I know why the D string is always the one that gives me wolf tones.
American Professional Jag (traditional) 11s
E - G#5/A5
A - D5
D - F#5/G5
G - C6
B - D6
E - G#6
Jaguarillo (modern) 9s
E - D#5
A - F5
D - A5
G - D#6
B - G6
E - B6
- secretroutines
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
If you just want it brighter try new pickups. The jmjm's have this jm/p90 hybrid construction which gives them a warmer sound, jm's really are just a little darker than jags. Do you use a lot of pedals? It could be an issue of output difference causing the jm to sound mushy.ianramos wrote:Thank you guys for all of the replies!
If there is one qualm i have with my J Mascis, it's that its too dark a guitar for the tone im trying to get. Often, when I am playing with other people in a band setting, I prefer my VM Jag simply because it just sounds a lot more clear to me. I love jazzmasters but I'm wondering if im a jaguar person hahaha.
Do you all look down on the CP jags as well?
- Fiddy
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Buy an ibanez RG
- ianramos
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
secretroutines wrote:If you just want it brighter try new pickups. The jmjm's have this jm/p90 hybrid construction which gives them a warmer sound, jm's really are just a little darker than jags. Do you use a lot of pedals? It could be an issue of output difference causing the jm to sound mushy.ianramos wrote:Thank you guys for all of the replies!
If there is one qualm i have with my J Mascis, it's that its too dark a guitar for the tone im trying to get. Often, when I am playing with other people in a band setting, I prefer my VM Jag simply because it just sounds a lot more clear to me. I love jazzmasters but I'm wondering if im a jaguar person hahaha.
Do you all look down on the CP jags as well?
Yeah I've got probably around 15 pedals im pushing though the amp to be fair. Sounds extremely dark with the jazzmaster but the jag sounds just fine. Ill have to look into pickups, thanks man!
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Replacing the tone knob with a no-load model that will click out will brighten it up a lot, or replace the pickups but you are getting close to the cost of a Fender SS Offset Mustang or a Squier Vintage Modified Mustang. You may want the jazzmaster sound in the future.ianramos wrote:secretroutines wrote:If you just want it brighter try new pickups. The jmjm's have this jm/p90 hybrid construction which gives them a warmer sound, jm's really are just a little darker than jags. Do you use a lot of pedals? It could be an issue of output difference causing the jm to sound mushy.ianramos wrote:Thank you guys for all of the replies!
If there is one qualm i have with my J Mascis, it's that its too dark a guitar for the tone im trying to get. Often, when I am playing with other people in a band setting, I prefer my VM Jag simply because it just sounds a lot more clear to me. I love jazzmasters but I'm wondering if im a jaguar person hahaha.
Do you all look down on the CP jags as well?
Yeah I've got probably around 15 pedals im pushing though the amp to be fair. Sounds extremely dark with the jazzmaster but the jag sounds just fine. Ill have to look into pickups, thanks man!
On a side note, you will need several guitars if you want to nail the Silver Rocket sound...and some drum sticks (shared just for fun)
https://youtu.be/05ygl9-5dvA?t=121
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
So the more I think, I may just want a brighter guitar. Which brings the next question: Do I sell my JMJM to fund a AVRI Mustang or a Classic 60's Jag/Jazz?
- Larsongs
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
All 3 would be brighter. IMO opinion the best Guitar, value & most versatile of the 3 is the Lacquer 60's.ianramos wrote:So the more I think, I may just want a brighter guitar. Which brings the next question: Do I sell my JMJM to fund a AVRI Mustang or a Classic 60's Jag/Jazz?
- pikmin
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
J just put Q_Pickups in my JMJM and it's a lot brighter and it sounds awesome . And the pickups are not expensive at all ...ianramos wrote:So the more I think, I may just want a brighter guitar. Which brings the next question: Do I sell my JMJM to fund a AVRI Mustang or a Classic 60's Jag/Jazz?
It's pretty new so the only sample I have for now is on this song @ 2min06 , you can hear the JMJM with Q_pickups : https://ericinthekitchen.bandcamp.com/t ... feeding-me" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There will be more soon .
- Embenny
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Re: Should I keep my J Mascis or get a different Jazzmaster?
Ok, honest question - could you clarify what you mean by "AVRI Mustang"? Do you just mean a vintage mustang? Because there has been no American Reissue of that guitar.ianramos wrote:So the more I think, I may just want a brighter guitar. Which brings the next question: Do I sell my JMJM to fund a AVRI Mustang or a Classic 60's Jag/Jazz?
If you're happy with how the JMJM feels and plays, I'd change pickups/electronics before doing anything else. You can get it sounding like a proper vintage-style JM that way. If you'd rather have a change of radius/neck/feel, then another guitar makes sense, but having a darker tone is a very solvable issue.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.