NGD Reality check - late 60's Yamaha SA50

[infiniteposse]

I found this in a local pawn shop yesterday. I walked with it for $600, which wasn't as little as I wanted to pay for it, but they've got a great 30-day return policy, so I don't mind taking chances with stuff from there, checking it out and then returning if needed.

The good: All electronics working after some De-Oxit, cosmetically it's in great shape, sounds really cool and I like the pickups. Original case minus the handle.

The bad: One knob is missing it's top. Action is quite high and I've found a couple of dead spots up the neck where notes fret out. Setup may easily resolve this. Frets have some pretty significant wear and I'm not sure I'll be able to get by with just a fret dress. The *big* bad part though is It seems like someone may have removed part of the trem system. The arms MIA and the part that the arm should seat into isn't coming up from the hole in the trem assembly, so I'm guessing it's just been taking out somehow? Regardless, it's for all intents and purposes a guitar without trem now. Having said that, it doesn't seem to affect the guitar at all. It's holding tune well.

So I guess my question to those of you who have used or own one of these is, is this guitar worth $600 and some work to make it what it can be? Prices on the used market are all over the place. Part of me is saying it's a beautifully constructed, set-neck hollowbody guitar from the late 60's, of course it's worth the money. The other part of me is thinking that there's a lot of great, non-labor intensive guitars out in the world. I've got a good number of hollow and semi-hollow guitars (67 Casino, 69 Gretsch 6120, 65 ES-335, etc...), so it's not like I'm not somewhat covered in that area. This thing is just beautiful, cool and has a unique sound.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[frelonvert]

Splendid! if you have questions ask forumite SuperAxe, he runs a great site on those:
http://superaxe.vanpolanenpetel.net/The ... ngMeister/

[Gavanti]

Nice. I have an SA-5 in red like yours. They're gorgeous guitars. Look at the SG-2/SG-3 thread in Vintage for information on hacking the tremolo with a Jazzmaster collet. It does involve permanent alteration, but the chances of acquiring a vintage collet and arm are extremely slim, and the trem system is one of the best features of these guitars. I think the average selling price was somewhere around $700-800 usd last year. It may have come down a bit, and they're not the easiest guitars to sell. You might have a bit better luck with a proper knob, particularly if you cruise Yahoo! Japan auctions. Several other Yamahas used these knobs. Definitely do contact Superaxe and check out his blog.

If I read that serial number right, this was probably one of the last of the SA-50s.

[infiniteposse]

Thanks so much for the feedback. I was able to finally track down the thread with the JM collet adaptation process. It's located here: http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... g#p1224594

The action on mine's extremely high, so I need to get it into my luthier next week to have him check out the truss rod and make sure that there's room for significant adjustment. Hopefully he'll also think he can eek another fret dress out of it. If it needs a full refret I may return it. I just can't afford to put that much money into it.

Thanks again for the assistance.

[infiniteposse]

I meant to also add that the s/n is 5 digits: 23909. Any idea what year that makes it?

[Gavanti]

The serial number is consistent with 1974 Yamahas if you go by the 1st numbering system (E1) here, but supposedly they stopped production on SA-50s in '72. My SA-50 also had a serial number that exceeded that range. Unfortunately there's not an official chart I know of for dating the SA models. SuperAxe may know of one. My guess would be that it's a '72.

[infiniteposse]

One more question since we're getting into crafty hacks. The case, possibly the most unwieldy guitar case I've ever lifted, is missing it's handle. There's two small metal nubs that were origionally attached to a handle. I was curious if folks though I could safely drill through them to allow for some sort of attachment/DIY handle. I should also try and see how the SA50 is fitting into a 335 case. Maybe that's the more sensible option.

Regardless, here some pics of the strange case.

[Con-Tiki!]

i'm not an expert, but my local shop has had 3 of those in the past 2 months. I think they all hit the wall in the 600-725 price range. One of them was exactly like yours, one a 12-string and the other had different pickups.
Might be worth noting that the guitars I saw were clean, complete, and set-up.

whether or not 600 is a good price depends on how often they turn up where you live, i guess.

[Straight6DOHC]

I think these guitars are so cool. Last year I responded to a local musicians ad where the guy was looking for someone to work with and record his songs. Eventually, I met up with the guy and he turned up with with what I believe to be an SA-5. Unfortunately, it was in quite a state. He only played it acoustically, the jack plug had long gone. I offered to check it out and see if I could fix it to a usable state. The story was that his dad had given him it some 30 odd years ago. It was in a state then too. The frets and fretboard were very worn around the cowboy chords. One of the baffles was gone. The trem arm was gone too. Other than that it was intact. Would have made a nice project. I'm pretty sure they were really expensive when new.

[Gavanti]

About 53,000 JPY when released, 55,000 JPY for the blonde models.

[infiniteposse]

Adjusted for inflation ($450usd) that comes out to approx. $2500 or so. I got the deal of the century!!!

[Gavanti]

Adjusted for inflation ($450usd) that comes out to approx. $2500 or so. I got the deal of the century!!!

Yeah. These weren't budget guitars, and the attention to detail (and branding apparently) is impressive. It's unfortunate that these still lag behind the SG's in value, but markets are funny. A lot of them are priced way too high on eBay and Reverb, but you'll also find them going on auction for well under what they probably could get also. You can often find more complete ones in Japan but then you have to pay the shipping and sometimes broker fees.

[Sound for Sandwiches]

I have one just like yours. I'll agree with someone upthread that the magic in these is the trem. If you can sort out the action and figure out a trem arm, I would bet you'll be very happy. FWIW I paid $550 for mine and it included the trem arm, but has nonoriginal tuners.

[infiniteposse]

Just dropped it off at my tech's place. The truss rod was almost completely un-tightened, so the board flattened right out with a few twists (with 11's on it). He's going to do a partial refret on the cowboy chords area, which are pretty deeply grooved and then dress the rest to match. He's also going to do the JM trem retrofit. I'll be about $800 into it, but it'll have perfect frets and playability. It's a truly unique beast, so I feel pretty ok about that. The pickups are especially cool, unique and well-put together.

Thanks so much for all of the assistance.

[SuperAxe]

Sorry infiniteposse, I haven't logged on for a while. Just read all the comments and will add my 3 cents here. It is a 1972, the highest serial number I recorded so far is 26950 and that was actually here in New Zealand. The serial numbers do not follow any Yamaha scheme as far as I can see. My guess is they made them for 5 years so based on the highest number that would be about 5000 per year on average. Pretty crude, but sort of works. The pickups changed from black to silver at around serial number 13-14 thousand or so.

About the handle... these fail very often. I have found a neat way of fixing them with a standard handle from Stewmac. Meant to post it on my site but yeah I have restored a few of these cases now and taken photos of the whole process. Again it will be posted one day. Keep the case and fix it up once you see how I do it. These cases are cool and yours looks like it is in good nick.

He's also going to do the JM trem retrofit.

Ask him to take photos so we can publish it.

The truss rod was almost completely un-tightened, so the board flattened right out with a few twists (with 11's on it).

I have seen this too a few times. These SA necks are very sensitive to truss rod adjustment. I like it, good design from Yamaha.

About pricing - Gavanti already told you. I have stopped keeping records for the very fact that they are all over the place on eBay anyway. However, $600 would be on the lowish side depending on condition.

Congratulations with your decision to keep it and get it ready to go for another 40 years.