Acoustics - Where Do I Start?

[stevemac100]

Hi, looking to buy an acoustic and am somewhat overwhelmed by the choice available. Currently have 2x Jags, 2x Jazz and a Gretsch but now looking to buy an acoustic for variety.

Roughly thinking of possibly a Yamaha or Martin and that's about as far as I've got in my thinking.

Buying for playing at home not gigging so am not interested in pickups, in fact would like to avoid one with pickups since I don't want to pay for something I'm unlikely to use. Looking at some of the bigger stores, that looks like I'd be ruling out a lot of the acoustics already.

Budget is approx £1000 and would consider new and used. Hoping for some advice to narrow down my search.

[GilmourD]

So my thoughts tend to lie in the "try as many as you can get your hands on" range.

The reason I say that has a few reasons.

First, necks. Every acoustic manufacturer seems to have their neck shape. I'm one of those people that really gravitates towards certain neck shapes and literally has physical problems (cramping) with other neck shapes. Seagulls don't agree with my hand at all but Taylors are sublime.

Second, wood combinations. Doesn't matter where you are on the solid-body electric guitar tonewood debate, acoustic guitars are absolutely defined by their woods. I spent years lamenting the fact that I fell in love with the tone of a spruce top with rosewood back and sides but that every guitar set up that way was out of my price range. Then I found a Guitar Center exclusive model Breedlove with that setup on Reverb for only $350. Had a few dings and wear spots but I'm playing it at home or recording, so who cares?

Third, body size/shape. The obvious part of this player comfort, but you could take two guitars from the same brand, series, and materials but one is, say, a dreadnaught and the other is a parlor and they're going to sound completely different. See what you're comfortable holding and work your way from there.

I know you said the big box stores at least partially eliminate your desire to go electronics free, but you can at least kick the tires on them to see what you like as far as other aspects and then possibly order something.

As such, I don't have any specific suggestions regarding models as there's so much variation in acoustics and I have no idea what will capture your ear and heart.

[Embenny]

Agreed, the first rule of acoustics is to never, ever,ever buy sight unseen, especially when starting out.

Other than every guitar feeling and sounding completely different, you need to start building a catalogue in your head of what different manufacturers, body shapes, and wood combinations sound like.

Before I bought my first expensive acoustic, I spent countless hours playing every guitar in my area. Music stores often have an "acoustic room" that lets you close out some of the noise of the rest of the shop. Use it.

But another reason is that factory guitars are built to specs that minimize warranty returns, so 99% of them are overbuilt and resultingly under-responsive and underwhelming.

Wood is a highly variable construction material; every species of wood has a range of densities and tensile strengths. Factories spec the thickness of tops and braces such that warranty returns and repairs from structural failure are under 1%. Luthiers flex, weigh, tap and measure the properties of each individual piece of wood, and shave down the thickness until it's as light as possible without risk of failure.

What this means is that less than 1% of factory guitars have a top that is light/low density enough for the factory specs to be close to ideal. That's why you always hear people talk about finding "that special Martin in the shop" - it's one of those guitars in the 99th percentile, and the tone, volume and responsiveness will blow away the others on the rack.

I may draw criticism for having this strong an opinion on this, but I've played classical and acoustic guitars my whole life and have played many hundreds if not thousands of factory guitars, as well as many dozens of high-end luthier-built instruments, and have owned perhaps 15 factory guitars (all long gone by now) as well as a dozen guitars by a handful of different luthiers. I've sat down with luthiers and listened to what they have to day, and I've A/B'd countless permutations of guitars, so I'm extremely confident in my stance.

So, having said all that, I do believe it's entirely possible to find a lovely, inspiring factory-made guitar. But like I said earlier, it takes boots on the ground and an open mind, because the one that captivates you as you play it will likely not have caught your eye when you walked into the room. I can't tell you how many "perfect spec" guitars from "my favourite manufacturer" at the time left me completely cold once they were in my hands. But then, a random guitar next to it whose looks I didn't really like and whose manufacturer was one I thought I didn't like would turn out to blow me away.

In the "budget" acoustic segment, I've always been more impressed than average with Alvarez guitars. Can't tell you why. It's just that a higher than average percentage of them made me think, "Wow, that's impressive," compared to others in their price range. But as you try different guitars, you'll realize that different manufacturers (and even different lines within a manufacturer's range) will use a different voicing - the term used to describe how the top is tuned and braced to emphasize certain qualities. Martins tend to emphasize bass, midrange and the fundamental. Taylors tend to emphasize treble, midrange, and harmonics. Those are extremely crude descriptions, and the nuances of a builder's voicing become apparent only through playing dozens to hundreds of their guitars across different shapes and wood combinations.

Sorry if this doesn't help reduce your feeling of being overwhelmed. It should be a fun process, not an intimidating one. Basically, get out there and play guitars, and don't buy one too quickly unless you happen to strike gold and find yourself thinking, "Holy crap, this one is SO much better than the others I've tried."

If that happens, that's the one. Don't worry about what shape or size or woods it's made from. The one that speaks to you is the one that speaks to you.

[marqueemoon]

I agree with “try a bunch of em’”, and trying in person.

Size/body style is important to me. I prefer smaller, shallower bodied acoustics as they sound more balanced to me, but some people can make a jumbo acoustic sound great. I would try a variety of styles across a few different brands and see if any patterns emerge.

You generally get what you pay for with acoustics, but if this is your first I would not be afraid to spend *less* than your budget. I think most people don’t find their forever acoustic the first try, and maybe acoustic will never be a big part of your playing, so nothing wrong with getting something cheaper to test the waters.

While I am not seriously in the market these days I will often pull up the Peterson strobe tuner app on my phone to check intonation. It can be pretty eye opening to see and hear how off some acoustics are, and it’s not always the cheap ones.

[seenoevil II]

I'm gonna muddy the waters a little bit. First off. I agree with everything said above. If you're game for it, it's a big wide world to go explore. You can really get lost in the weeds. And that can be really fun. There's a sweet spot where your specific preferences will bring your a better suited match and every one is happy. But, like everything, there's an inflection point where you receive diminished returns and you're realize that chasing your own tail.

So here's my slightly contrarian advice. I'm taking inspiration from a TED talk by a mathematician I once saw who argued you should marry the first person who's better than anyone else you've dated after the age of 25. It's called "optimal stopping" theory and it's predicated on the idea that there's a limited window of opportunity to select a partner (or guitar as the case may be). The trouble is that there is no such limited window when it comes to guitars. So, I'll adapt the rule.

So I say. Go to a guitar shop with a large selection of quality acoustics on two occasions. "Run the racks". Play everything that isn't wildly contrary to your preferences. BUT, only play guitars in your budget. You have a hefty budget and there is 100% an excellent guitar out there for that price. But if you go playing Collings and Custom Shop models, everything you can afford will fall flat in comparison.

Then, after that second trip. Keep looking, and buy the first guitar that's better than any other guitar you've demo'd up to that point.

Then, live happily ever after.

Here's why I think this is the way to go.

Acoustic guitars change with age. With your budget, you'll likely get an all solid instrument. The more hours you put into the guitar, the better it will get. Moreover, acoustics really reward monogamy. More than electrics, you'll learn the little idiosyncrasies of your guitar. You'll learn what it can, and what it can't do well. Ultimately, you'll become familiar and quite fond of your particular guitar. And it will be your particular guitar as you will have put your particular stamp onto it. Imparted the resonance of your playing, put in your wear patterns, your dings and dents and scratches with your experiences.

But, I say, spend your budget. I am thusly bonded to my $250 Yamaha. It's great and I love it, but sometimes I wish I put in the years with a slightly more upscale model. Really, I just wish it had solid back and sides that could share in aging process with the solid top.

My two cents. Happy Hunting!

[marqueemoon]

^I disagree somewhat.

I would encourage the OP to play a few things that are above their stated budget.

For one they are not all going to be great or the right fit. That’s an important reality check.

Secondly, if there’s something you like about that high end Martin or Collings maybe there’s an Eastman or a lawsuit Takamine that will scratch the itch at a more reasonable price.

[Embenny]

Yeah, I also disagree strongly with the "optimal shopping" approach, including (especially!) for life partners, but that's a completely different thread.

Keep in mind my perspective is coloured by having had classical and acoustic guitar play a much bigger role in my life than electric, and so the importance I place on a good acoustic instrument is very different from someone who might view it as, say, a songwriting tool on the couch and nothing more.

Nothing wrong with having a different approach or different goals for an acoustic instrument, but I'm speaking from the perspective of "optimal inspiration" rather than "optimal shopping."

When I discovered David Webber's guitars, it was like lightning struck. Like a choir of angels started singing. I picked up my first Webber and thought, "I didn't know an acoustic guitar could be like this."

And you know the funny thing? It was a used one that I got for...$1500 CAD maybe? And I had at least two or three $3000+ Taylors at that point in time. With current pricing, those would be $5000 Taylors. The high end stuff, including a custom Build To Order with a "sinker redwood" top that had been logged 200 years ago and dredged from a riverbed where it had sank on its way to the sawmill.

But that $1500 Webber changed my life, and that's no exaggeration. I immediately sought him out, discovered he was starting the process of winding down his career, made a pilgrimage to his shop in North Vancouver (the first of multiple) where I was able to sit and talk with him as he handed me guitar after guitar after guitar and talked about woods, bracing, philosophy, life, and kayaking.

To this day, nearly every acoustic guitar (and one ukulele) I own was made by him to my specs with woods I got to pick out myself from his private stash. The only other acoustic I've bought since those guitars was a cockamamie 12-string multiscale quasi-baritone I dreamed up, that Trevor Kronbauer (another great, much younger, BC luthier) was willing to take on but was way outside David's wheelhouse.

But, if I hadn't had the budget, I could have stuck with just that $1500 used Webber as my one and only lifelong guitar companion, and I'd never have lacked inspiration to play or write music. It was that good.

If I had stuck with the "optimal shopping" strategy, I'd still have my Taylors. And they were nice guitars, to be sure. But the number of songs and hours of practice that came effortlessly pouring out of me when I found my Webber were on a different level.

So even though I'm way into luthier-built guitars, I'm not a snob who thinks you need to spend $5k to get a decent instrument. $1500 CAD ($1100 USD) got me there, it just took time and patience for the right guitar to arrive at the right time and at the right price.

I also scored a Halcyon OM back in the day for $900 CAD. It was as barebones as an acoustic guitar could get, but it was hand built by Ed Bond, a former employee of Larrivée's Canadian factory who struck out on his own. I think his starting price is $1299 CAD now, which is still an absolutely absurd value for how alive his guitars are. I wouldn't recommend commissioning a custom guitar to someone starting out (you won't even know what nut width, string spacing, or body shape you find most enjoyable), but if you ever come across one of his new or used guitars somewhere you can try before buying, take the opportunity!

That one $900 OM of his was easily a louder, more resonant, more touch responsive and more inspiring guitar to play than any Martin OM I've ever tried at 5-6x the price. It wasn't nearly as pretty (no fancy binding/purfling/rosette, and a barely-there satin varnish finish), but good lord, it was a tremendous guitar.

So yeah. I say go for optimal inspiration, rather than optimal shopping. Acoustic guitars are closer to a living and breathing organism than electric guitars are. And some of the best ones I've ever played have been much more affordable than the legendary factory models that get so much internet forum praise, like D-28s.

[stevemac100]

Many thanks for all the replies so far - some great food for thought there. Alavrez is not necessarily a brand I would have picked to try but will certainly give them a shot.

Some of the advice seems to be steering my in mind of solid sides & back so will certainly aim for that.

Any other recommended brands or general advice, keep it coming - it's much appreciated by this novice.

[seenoevil II]

Any other recommended brands or general advice, keep it coming - it's much appreciated by this novice.

For brands, honestly, Martin would be my pick. It would be made in Mexico, but at 1k they do really nice solid wood guitars.

I've found their fit and finish to be really great even at those price points.

[marqueemoon]

Any other recommended brands or general advice, keep it coming - it's much appreciated by this novice.

For brands, honestly, Martin would be my pick. It would be made in Mexico, but at 1k they do really nice solid wood guitars.

I've found their fit and finish to be really great even at those price points.

The all-mahogany Martins are excellent IMO. Sigma basically has equivalents of that whole line which I’m sure are pretty good too.

Seagull, Takamine. I’ve played a few Eastmans that were very good and others that were just ok. Alvarez as already mentioned. Some of the new Guilds are pretty good.

So many good guitars out there though, especially used.

[einpresstiefe]

The new Yamaha Red Label guitars look very interesting and the Chinese made ones sans electronics will probably fall in your budget. I hadn't been able to find any local to demo while I was on the lookout before I satisfied my acoustic guitar needs.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical ... index.html

[stevejamsecono]

Try everything until something sings to you. I agree with what'a been said here that acoustic guitars seem to obey their own weird laws and price/manufacturer is not a guarentee of anything.

... but

I will strongly advocate for trying Guilds if you can find them. I'm heavily biased in that I grew up around them and we have three D25s in the family, but they sound and play wonderfully. I've yet to run into one that doesn't sound magical with a fresh set of strings.

[sessylU]

It's nice to see good advice here. The standard response on electric guitar forums is for people to advice OP to buy whatever it is that they have.

So, in that vein:

I'd be looking at Sigmas. I don't play much acoustic, but I own and am still in love with a cheap Sigma, and they offer very good value at different price points.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

If I was in the UK and I had a grand to spend on my first acoustic I'd try'n find an old 70s-80s Eko Ranger sold locally, probably for around £100, ask the seller to put new strings on it, and then try it out. It's more than likely that a) it'll sound amazing, and b) keep you happy for years, until you want to use the remaining £900 on a very nice upgrade.

I've sung their praises so many times here as they really are great guitars, considering the fact they're laminated, not solid bodied. They also have bolt on necks & adjustable bridges - all the things that should be detrimental to their sound. They have mahogany back & sides which has such a sweet, rich & deep tone.

...and a big +1 on Guild. Every bit as good as Martin & Gibsons but a whole lot cheaper, most of the time.

[UlricvonCatalyst]

My only piece of advice is buy a second-hand one and you might get more for your grand than you'd get buying a brand new one.

To get an idea of what's out there maybe look at eBay's acoustic guitar section and set the search parameters to 'item location: UK only', 'condition: used'/ 'seller refurbished', and the price range between £750 and £999. Once you've done that hit the 'sold listings' button as well. That should give you a decent snapshot of what your money should be able to buy you, then you can look at local ads on Gumtree/FB marketplace which will enable you to try before you buy.

As a happy Sigma owner I'd also echo sessy's and porky's sentiments that you don't need to spend anything like a grand to get a great-sound and -playing acoustic.