School me on vintage Gibson neck profiles

[HH1978]

Hello,

I'm on the hunt for a vintage ES-175. Looking for a PAF equipped model, so basically 1957-1962.

I have an opportunity to buy a 1957 or a 1960, same price, both all original. The 1960 speaks to me a lot, but from what I can tell, it already has a slim taper profile. I know how a late 50's neck feels like, but have no experience with early 60's (I have a 1967 pencil neck, but I think it wouldn't make much sense to compare since the nut width gives a totally different feeling).

What are the pro's and con's of these necks?

Many thanks!

[zhivago]

I've only played early 60s Gibsons briefly at shops...the neck profile is thin and fast...I am more of a fan of the '63 onwards profile where there is a bit more heft to the necks, but if I were picking guitar for real fast playing, an early 60s would be a pretty good choice.

I'd definitely try and play a few early 60s vintage necks at a shop, if I were you, just to make sure the feel is right.


Slightly related: During my trip to Nashville as few years back, I got to try late 60s Gibson necks and realised they were not for me. This saved me a lot of hassle of actually buying a guitar like that and having to return it or sell it on at a possible loss...so some...ermm...hands-on(excuse the pun), experience can be good, if there is a vintage guitar shop near you.

[sookwinder]

Early 60s Gibson (and Epiphone) neck profiles can be quite varied (like fenders were.
But one thing I would say is that they are not "thin", like they were in the latter half of the 60s.

From my instruments:
1961 neck
nut: 42.68mm
depth at 1st fret: 22mm

1963 neck
nut: 41.51mm
depth at 1st fret: 23mm

If I was to assess the 1961 neck I would prefer it to have a slightly deeper neck at the first fret, relative to the width. There is virtually no shoulder on the neck, where as the 1963 neck has a slight shoulder and IMO is a more comfortable shape. (not that the 1961 is bad)

They were all hand sanded, so there are variations

[HH1978]

Thanks for your replies!

I totally agree that hands-on experience would be the best. Unfortunately, the last vintage shop in my area closed a couple of years ago. The closest one would be in Paris, 300Km from home, but I checked all vintage shops website and could not find any 1960-62 Gibson in stock. A trip to London might be my best option, I'll have to see if my work schedules allow me to do that in the next few weeks.

One thing I know from my experience with vintage guitars (I've owned about 15 guitars made between 1928 and 1966) is that I can adapt to about any neck shape (even found myself to really like a 1937 Style O's odd narrow and thick hard V profile basswood neck). The only guitars I sold specifically because I hated their necks were a 1956 Magnatone MKIV (had 2 of them, the other one has a much better neck, so indeed hand sanded can mean variations in profiles), and a Micro-frets Stage II. Both had a very thin and flat neck profile (about 16mm at 1st fret).

Yet, a vintage ES-175 is expensive, and for that kind of money, I'd better make sure that it will feel perfect, so certainly woth the wait to find the opportunity to try a similar neck.

Here are some pictures of the neck sent to me by the seller, but I can't tell much from them.

[sookwinder]

I have 20 Gibson/Epiphone guitars from 1958 - 1968, with a wide range of neck profiles.
None of them, not even the thinner nuts necks, are bad necks. When there is a thinner nut, there is a larger shoulder.

Me? I would go for the 60 rather than the 58, based upon the necks I have played.

I just realised I have a 1962 neck, details below

1962 neck
nut: 43.13mm
depth at 1st fret: 22.3mm

[HH1978]

Thanks for the infos!

Actually, upon inspecting the pictures closely, the main issue with the 1960 won't be the neck but the pickups, as there are evidences that the cover have been off in the past. So my choice will depend a lot on if the seller agrees to take the covers off again and send pictures from the inside.

[HH1978]

Could get pictures with the covers off and they look right inside

Me? I would go for the 60 rather than the 58, based upon the necks I have played.

I just went through all possible necks I have at home, and found that :

1) My MkIV (the one remaining) has a thinner neck than I remembered (about 18mm at 1st fret). Not my favourite neck, but certainly not unplayable.
2) My 1956 Gibson is comfortable, but I play better on somewhat thinner necks.
3) Even if my 1967 Es-345 has the infamous pencil neck, my playing is better on that one than on the '56.

Given all that, I'm inclined to go for the 1960.

[øøøøøøø]

And I would go for the 1957.

The late 1950s Gibson necks are my favorite. But I’m pretty adaptable. They’re all wonderful. I wouldn’t stress it... buy the guitar you most like, and you’ll quickly get acclimated to the neck!

[jvin248]

.

In addition to the width and depth, see where the carve starts -- how wide are the flats on the sides as that removes or leaves a lot of wood. For a dramatic look at this, compare a Squier Strat to a MIM/MIA Strat and you'll see how they carve a lot of wood off the rear shoulders even though the width and depth are within 0.5mm. It doesn't take much on other necks to make that carve shape move a lot -- and your hand feels the circumference of the neck not the width and depth.

How high are the frets? That becomes part of the circumference too.

Me, I have too much headstock anxiety to mess with any more Gibsons. The ones I have don't get played. I use modern Epiphones or other brands instead (if needed, Gibson pickups and controls can be added). Too much drama if the headstock flips off. Yes, some have owned and played dozens of Gibsons with no problems. Final straw for me was this last August I went to look at a Gibson and in the darkened room of the seller I caught the faint lines of an undisclosed headstock repair. The seller acted surprised. I was out. That cured me of chasing any Gibsons until they rework and fix their headstock designs (and the probability of them changing is near zero). So I'm done buying 'em.

Good luck on the search.

.

[HH1978]

The late 1950s Gibson necks are my favorite. But I’m pretty adaptable. They’re all wonderful. I wouldn’t stress it... buy the guitar you most like, and you’ll quickly get acclimated to the neck!

I followed that part of your advice and bought the 1960. The faded tobacco sunburst on mildly flamed maple would have haunted me if I had not. The 1957 is a darkburst on plain top, it's a beautiful guitar too, in great condition, but not as stunning as the other (from my point of view).

And the neck feels good. It's definetely a slim taper profile, but it feels quite fuller than my 67 ES-345, which makes sense as the nut width is different. Not as comfortable as my 56 Jr, but faster. The guitar plays itself, and sounds beautiful.

As for the headstock, I know shit can happen (and more likely on a Gibson than any other brand), but I'm careful with my gear and in 25 years of playing, I've never had a neck break.

I'll change the tuners and stock the original in the case, as they are a bit shrunken and I would stress to break them, but otherwise the guitar is ready to gig.

I'll post pictures when I get the time to take some proper ones.

Many thanks to you all!

[HH1978]

I forgot to mention I could substantially negotiate the price of the 1960, which was not possible with the 1957. Not sure what I would have done if it had been the other way around, but as it was the guitar I preferred, it helped me a lot