NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (more photos on page 2!)

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Despot » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:30 am

Maggieo wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:07 pm
Man, that is just Prime.

Now want one. :fp:
Thanks Maggie - given the number of stunning guitars you've posted up over the years that really means something!

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Despot » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:31 am

shadowplay wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:00 am
Really pleased for you, if this is your swan song in the old guitar market it's worthy finale.

It almost looks like it's glowing.

D
It's always best to go out on a high note. I never thought it would be a Firebird, but it's coming full circle for me back to the guitars I loved as a kid. If this is the swan song then that's fine with me.

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Despot » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:32 am

zhivago wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:58 pm
I LOVE Firebirds...a very good friend has had a couple and they are just awesome guitars.

I totally hear you on the mini-hums...they are just awesome!

Really cool guitar! :-* 8)
Thanks Yannis. It's something like your Custom for me - I'd long loved them from afar, but when I managed to get one into my hands I couldn't put it down. :)

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Despot » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:36 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:07 pm
I have no idea why they aren't incredibly popular guitars.

Congratulations!
Thanks Larry. I think it's the styling. Firebirds look odd even today - at the time they must have been a hard sell. Their uniqueness makes them a love/hate thing - I've always loved them ... I loved the oddness of them, how they dwarf the player - it's like you've strapped on a bass guitar rather than a guitar.

But my god ... how they sound. It sounds great through the Princeton ... but it really sings in the Swart.

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:49 am

Despot wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 am
Modern firebird pickups do not sound remotely like vintage pickups. They're not even close. The only thing I can think of is that Gibson decided that a more single coil sounding Gibson wasn't a good thing and used a more regular/standard hum bucker type.
The only thing I can think is that Gibson no longer really knows what makes the Firebird what it is- really, not unlike Fender and the Jazzmaster. It's a design that the modern companies inherited from the company that they were two ownership generations ago, two lifetimes in the world of business. The original designers and players of the instruments are long gone, and the guitars were never that popular, so the modern day people at Gibson and Fender don't really know what they have on their hands or what makes them great guitars.

With the Jazzmaster, it seems like Fender has the attitude of, "Well, alternative players play it, like that one guy with the soul patch! I think he's alternative... it must be an alternative guitar!"

With Gibson, I imagine the conversation was something like, "Shit, who plays these things anyway? Who is that skinny old man you hear about from time to time? Right, right... is he still alive? Anyway I guess this is a blooze guitar then. Let's slap some ceramic high gain pickups in it I guess, the shrill and unpleasant sound of those will be able to pierce the hearing loss of the baby boomer demographic, which will be more satisfying to them as they assault their communities with 'Mustang Sally' at street festivals. It's a blooze guitar, is what I'm saying here."
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
Paul-T
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:41 am
Location: London

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Paul-T » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:09 am

That does look beautiful. Nice pick up. As well as pickups.

I too have also played most of the greats, with lots of good examples, but never one of those. After reading this I shall definitely steer clear of these beauties, as I am in divesting rather than acquisition mode.

given that Phil Manzanera and Brian Jones looked and sounded so good with them, I'm surprised that more people don't love them. They are absolute design classics, such a vindication of Ted McCarty's absolute genius.
"classic marked down to 20 pence bargain bin fodder'

User avatar
Musjagjazz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:57 am

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Musjagjazz » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:23 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:49 am
Despot wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 am
Modern firebird pickups do not sound remotely like vintage pickups. They're not even close. The only thing I can think of is that Gibson decided that a more single coil sounding Gibson wasn't a good thing and used a more regular/standard hum bucker type.
The only thing I can think is that Gibson no longer really knows what makes the Firebird what it is- really, not unlike Fender and the Jazzmaster. It's a design that the modern companies inherited from the company that they were two ownership generations ago, two lifetimes in the world of business. The original designers and players of the instruments are long gone, and the guitars were never that popular, so the modern day people at Gibson and Fender don't really know what they have on their hands or what makes them great guitars.

With the Jazzmaster, it seems like Fender has the attitude of, "Well, alternative players play it, like that one guy with the soul patch! I think he's alternative... it must be an alternative guitar!"

With Gibson, I imagine the conversation was something like, "Shit, who plays these things anyway? Who is that skinny old man you hear about from time to time? Right, right... is he still alive? Anyway I guess this is a blooze guitar then. Let's slap some ceramic high gain pickups in it I guess, the shrill and unpleasant sound of those will be able to pierce the hearing loss of the baby boomer demographic, which will be more satisfying to them as they assault their communities with 'Mustang Sally' at street festivals. It's a blooze guitar, is what I'm saying here."

At least the top blooze guy, Joe Bonarama, knew enough that the current Firebird pickups aren't good & got Epiphone to make recreations of the original pickup for his signature guitar - Alnico II magnets with a steel reflector plate, 7.85Kohm output (one pickup only) not like the current 25kohm Bridge and 14kohm Neck :fp:

http://www.epiphone.com/News/Features/2 ... ird-I.aspx

I hope once Gibson emerges from bankruptcy that the new owners/management revisit this guitar and make it all original again.
The 2019 model is using Grover Mini's as the tuners - not banjo or Steinberger's (I think they are not making Steinberger tuners anymore?)

Also found a demo of Mini Humbuckers vs Firebird pickups using Lollars - can definitely hear the difference in tone between the 2 types of pickups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjpyxovZwHc

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:37 am

Musjagjazz wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:23 am


At least the top blooze guy, Joe Bonarama, knew enough that the current Firebird pickups aren't good & got Epiphone to make recreations of the original pickup for his signature guitar - Alnico II magnets with a steel reflector plate, 7.85Kohm output (one pickup only) not like the current 25kohm Bridge and 14kohm Neck :fp:

http://www.epiphone.com/News/Features/2 ... ird-I.aspx

I hope once Gibson emerges from bankruptcy that the new owners/management revisit this guitar and make it all original again.
The 2019 model is using Grover Mini's as the tuners - not banjo or Steinberger's (I think they are not making Steinberger tuners anymore?)

Also found a demo of Mini Humbuckers vs Firebird pickups using Lollars - can definitely hear the difference in tone between the 2 types of pickups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjpyxovZwHc
That is true... give it up for Joe Bonamassa. I haven't played one of those, but everyone raves about those pickups, and he was imaginative enough to go Alnico 2 and I went with the more conservative Alnico 5 on mine.

Now I want another Firebird so I can put Alnico 2 pickups in it.

I think you are correct about the Steinbergers, Gibson is already not selling them anymore, so the price is jumping (I did not see that coming) and I am reading that the patent is somehow expiring.

Who knows- what I'm repeating is rumor. I think the Steinbergers are my favorite of everything I've seen on Firebirds, but I think they are only OK tuners. I mean they are good- not great.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
Musjagjazz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:57 am

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Musjagjazz » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:13 am

I shouldn't entirely be negative as they have made some improvements to the current model:

Rolled Binding - Very comfortable to play and binding is white, not a cream colour anymore

Aluminum Tailpiece and Bridge - not fake Zamak as in the past

Pickup rings - pickups are parallel to the strings now

Image

So they haven't entirely forgot about the guitar

Sorry to hijack the thread. :wtf:

User avatar
zhivago
Mods
Mods
Posts: 21926
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:18 am
Location: London, UK

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by zhivago » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:05 pm

Despot wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:32 am
zhivago wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:58 pm
I LOVE Firebirds...a very good friend has had a couple and they are just awesome guitars.

I totally hear you on the mini-hums...they are just awesome!

Really cool guitar! :-* 8)
Thanks Yannis. It's something like your Custom for me - I'd long loved them from afar, but when I managed to get one into my hands I couldn't put it down. :)

Kev, that is the best place on the world to be!!! Rock on!!
Resident Spartan.

User avatar
loudwizard
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:52 am

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by loudwizard » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:10 am

So cool. I've been playing my Bilt El Hombre with Lollar FB pickups more than anything else lately....been dreaming about a 60's Firebird.

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:55 am

Musjagjazz wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:13 am
Image
Gibson is doing a great job with Firebirds, if you overlook the bizarre decision to use those pickups.

Hey, where can I get those rings, though? I like the looks of that very much. I'd put them on my 2010 Firebird V if I could find them. Anybody know?
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
Musjagjazz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:57 am

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Musjagjazz » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:49 am

Gibson calls them Trim Rings. Scroll down until you see Plastics

[url]http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... d.aspx/url]

Maybe your local shop can order them for you as I don't see them for sale anywhere.

Below are the Gibson Part Numbers

Trim Rings Style:Black Firebird
Low/High Part Number:430-13886 / 430-13888

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Despot » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm

Just realised something re: the vibrola.

Given that this is a 63 (late - shipped in Feb 64) it’s one of the first run of vibrola equipped Gibsons.

I’ve noticed that this vibrola is stiff - it stays in tune really well ... but the spring is at least twice as stiff as the spring on the 68/9 SG - both keep tune well, but the SG is more sensitive and easy to bend. The Firebird ... gentle wobbles can be done, but that light fingertip stuff you can do on the SG requires a lot more intent/force here.

It’s just a matter of getting used to it - I wonder if the early vibrolas had stronger springs by design?

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: NGD - 1963 Gibson Firebird V (maybe the last NGD for me!)

Post by Despot » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:53 am

Some more photos (now that I have some light).

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Post Reply