NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

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NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by Despot » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:13 am

Well ... here we are again.

Before we go there though I've got to point out that there is a logic to this ... oh yes...

I've been feeling serious loss GAS for the SG Custom that I sold earlier this year as part of the house fund. I think I miss that guitar as much as any guitar I've let go. But it did have a 'flaw' that led to it hitting the bricks - the missing middle setting. The quacky out-of-phase middle position on the three pickup custom just didn't do much for me. It was weaker than the middle (also out of phase) on the ES345 and ended up being pretty useless. I think that was part of the reason for the sale of the Custom - the other was how much money I had locked up in it!

Late last week I came to a decision - either the Telecaster or the ES345 has to go. Both are great guitars, but there are reasons why I don't use either as much as I should. Both have extremely slim necks - and in the case of the ES345 the miss-matched pickup levels make it difficult to use - you can either set the amp for the bridge pickup and then the neck is way too loud, or else set it for the neck and the bridge is under powered even with a boost pedal/drive.

As I was pondering what to do I took a look on reverb (something I don't do all that often) - I've hit on an idea of replacing the ES345 with an Epiphone Riviera or Sheraton (either/or) and I was looking for one that would fit the bill ... that would end up costing less than the value of the ES345 and thereby free up more cash for the house fund, and also cure the GAS bubbling away without actually costing me money. Reverb threw up some guitars for sale in Ireland - one of which was a 1969 SG Standard that was for sale near my home town.

Interesting, said I. The asking price was ... okay. High for US but probably okay for Ireland, or what I'd expect to pay in a store. I checked the local Irish adverts site on a hunch that it was probably there as well ... and sure enough it was. A quick check through the sellers 'withdrawn' items revealed that the guitar had previously been offered for sale for 1,500 euro more than the current asking (which would have been on the high side). I had a hunch that the seller might have been looking to off load the guitar quickly so I made an offer that wasn't totally taking the proverbial, but which would have represented a deal for me - I was surprised to get a counter offer that was only a few hundred euro more and the deal was done.

I'll stick some photos up later on today (I got it home late last night), but I did have a chance to let it rip through my home town Vibrolux yesterday afternoon. Man ... I love t-tops. Playing the SG reminded me that as much as PAFs I find a good pair of t-tops to be a lot better for what I do. Bright, open, jangly ... lots of cut and bite when you need it - just a great sounding guitar.

This one is in pretty good shape - the colour is a little faded to close to brown, but not completely gone. A few dings in the edges and a bit of wear on the forearm contour ... but not too bad at all. A nice neck profile - surprisingly slim at the nut, but very quickly turns to chunky.

I'm not 100% sure that this is a '69 (it was sold to me as such) - the heel isn't the massive block heel that the Custom had (and iirc that was a '68) and has a bit more profile/shape to it. I've seen this heel shape before on '67s ... I haven't checked the pot codes yet, so let's see. While everyone loves earlier SGs I've always found the neck join to be a worry - the good thing about these later '60s SGs is the big heel join - as much as it might not be as pretty to look at, it's structurally a lot more sound and reliable. I always notice how on earlier SGs you can easily bend the neck out of tune without even meaning to - on this one ... nope. Rock solid.

Any issues with this guitar? Not really. I suspect that the pick guard is changed (black three ply ... but too thin to my eye), but it looks okay and it's relatively easy to replace it if I want to do that. The bridge is probably a swap out too, but it's a tuneomatic rather than a nashville replacement so that's fine. It's been refretted (and it's a really really nice refret too) and the board was planed as part of that - thankfully the guy doing the work was careful and didn't take too much - the inlays still look fine. The only downside is that the wood looks lighter/newer now. But with the refret it plays so well - low, perfect fast action.

I think I mentioned on the Custom thread that I'd always wanted a big guard SG - and while I still wish these guitars didn't come with a certain automatic association, I do love how they sound. T-tops patent numbers ... they're just such sweet sounding pickups. They're also extremely versatile - while this guitar can no doubt nail the sound that they're usually associated with, it can also do beautiful clean/articulate tones.

Anyway ... apologies for the no-pic post - I'm just really really happy with this one. I'll post pics later on. But this one ticks all the boxes. I'm not going to lie and say that this one is a keeper for evermore - at this stage the only keepers are my Jazzmaster and the J45 - but given what I paid for this if I do decide to sell it down the line I'd be able to turn a bit of cash on it. But I'm not thinking that way right now - I'm far too busy playing it.

Now the pics:
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Despot on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard

Post by zhivago » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:20 am

Good to see you found another SG, Kev!

I can see how the SG Custom left a hole...it was a bucket list guitar for me :)

Looking forward to the photos! 8)
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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard

Post by Despot » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:40 am

zhivago wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:20 am
Good to see you found another SG, Kev!

I can see how the SG Custom left a hole...it was a bucket list guitar for me :)

Looking forward to the photos! 8)
Thanks Yannis.

There was actually a mint '64 for sale locally as well - and it too was a peach. I was tempted, briefly, to consider doing a deal for it with my ES345 ... but I've come to realise that the Telecaster and ES345 have far too much money locked up in them. It's a sort of weird value argument - this SG is actually more useful to me than the ES345, yet 1/3 of the cost. That lets me sell on the ES345, add cash to the house fund and still actually have a guitar that's more useful to me than the one I'd let go. If I'd gone for the '64 I'd have ended up overall in the same position - another expensive guitar with a lot of money locked up in it.

There's a bit of mad logic to what I'm doing. SG prices seem to be going up a lot - I remember seeing a '69 like this one for sale in Paris a few years back (from Woodstore near Pigalle) for not much more than what I paid for mine - now when you go online there are guitars on reverb for 6k/7k - late '60s big guards! If I held onto this for ten years I'd probably double what I have put into it without any difficulty. Meanwhile I've had the ES345 for four years (iirc) - it's still worth around the same as I paid for it. Jazzmasters are going up in value - Epiphone semi hollows are going up in value - stuff like Coronets and Wilshires are going up a lot. If I stuck some of the sale money from the ES345 into a guitar and the rest into the house fund it kills two birds with one stone - and could even let me make a few quid if I buy right.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard

Post by zhivago » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:18 am

You are on the right track. :)

I think the guitars that are more popular with older players have already reached their ceiling (50s Strats/Teles/ESs/Carved top LPs).

SGs and a few others you mention have a way to go price-wise, as younger players snap them up at the moment. Plus they made a lot of SGs back then compared to 50s carved top Les Pauls, for example. This makes them more affordable too.

Having said that, I chased a PAF (or early sticker) SG Custom for a whole year and basically gave up about a month ago. All guitars I see are way over-priced for what they are.

SGs are very cool in my book, but I can't justify the prices people are asking at this point. Going for a more plentiful early 60s SG Standard is even more complex with CITES restrictions, so I think I will just go the reissue SG Custom way. I was blown away by the '62 SG Standard I played at Gruhn's earlier this year, but they wanted $12k for it! :wtf:


To be quite honest, I am still reeling from buying my Martin, and that one is still is in the shop getting frets and a neck reset - another £800 ontop of the buying price. :fp:


I've had some time to reflect on all this gear stuff lately, and I think I am calling it quits on the vintage game. It's gotten too expensive for what it is, and the four vintage guitars I have are more than the average person has, and they cover all the sonic bases for me. I am grateful :)

I'm happy to go the reissue/replica way from now on. Well, at least for a while. :D
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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard

Post by Despot » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:38 am

I hear you - I'm feeling the same way re: prices of most vintage stuff.

The SG cost me a little more than you'd pay for a custom shop SG second hand. At that price I couldn't turn it down. A vintage late '60s SG for around the price of a new 2nd hand custom shop? Hell yeah... especially when I've lusted after one of these for the longest time (over and above small guard SGs).

I'll need a new pickguard - the existing one is a three ply rather than a five ply - but that's a 50 euro replacement and not something I'd get too beat up about.

I'm increasingly coming to value the use of my gear over vintage/value etc. That ES345 is the most costly thing I own - but as beautiful as it is it has a thin neck (not something I love) and I rarely play it amplified. Unplugged it's amazing - like an acoustic guitar - and plugged in that neck pickup is really something. But it's not a sound I use - and the SG had balanced pickups that ARE a sound I'll use. Shifting the last few remaining things around I could free up cash for the house fund, and get some stuff that I will find myself using a lot more. Is there a risk that down the line (20+ years) I'll regret letting go of a McCarthy era ES guitar, or an early CBS Tele? Yeah ... it's possible. But I think I'll be okay with it sitting in a house that selling that gear helped to pay for - especially if I'm able to hold onto stuff like the J45, Jazzmaster and the SG.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard

Post by zhivago » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:29 am

Despot wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:38 am
I hear you - I'm feeling the same way re: prices of most vintage stuff.

The SG cost me a little more than you'd pay for a custom shop SG second hand. At that price I couldn't turn it down. A vintage late '60s SG for around the price of a new 2nd hand custom shop? Hell yeah... especially when I've lusted after one of these for the longest time (over and above small guard SGs).

I'll need a new pickguard - the existing one is a three ply rather than a five ply - but that's a 50 euro replacement and not something I'd get too beat up about.

I'm increasingly coming to value the use of my gear over vintage/value etc. That ES345 is the most costly thing I own - but as beautiful as it is it has a thin neck (not something I love) and I rarely play it amplified. Unplugged it's amazing - like an acoustic guitar - and plugged in that neck pickup is really something. But it's not a sound I use - and the SG had balanced pickups that ARE a sound I'll use. Shifting the last few remaining things around I could free up cash for the house fund, and get some stuff that I will find myself using a lot more. Is there a risk that down the line (20+ years) I'll regret letting go of a McCarthy era ES guitar, or an early CBS Tele? Yeah ... it's possible. But I think I'll be okay with it sitting in a house that selling that gear helped to pay for - especially if I'm able to hold onto stuff like the J45, Jazzmaster and the SG.
You got that SG for a great price for sure! :)

I hear you on the 345 front...sometimes I find that owning something so iconic can occasionally demythify it. Ultimately they are all guitars...some good, some bad, some outstanding. They are all tools...I got really lucky with my '56 Custom, it truly is all I ever dreamt it would be.

All over the internet for years I read older players especially, say that a good Tele and a 335/45 is all that anyone needs, but I think our generation craves different sounds. I grew up on hard rock and metal...an SG makes a lot of sense...a fast guitar with gritty pickups.

...and then there's Jazzmasters...they just work! :)
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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard

Post by Despot » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:37 am

I'm absolutely a believer in the 'a 335 can do almost everything' school of thought. I think the issue is with this particular guitar and me - as beautiful as it is, and as crazy good as that neck pickup is, the slim neck and inability to get a balanced sound from it make it less usable for me than the historic reissue ES345 - that has a lovely neck profile, two great sounding pickups and it cost a whole lot less. Is it as good a guitar (whether objectively or subjectively) - I'd say no, it's not. But the difference between the reissue and the vintage guitar (in terms of how 'good' one is compared to the other) is small - and certainly there's more value in the historic reissue at the price compared to the vintage ES345.

I originally started this thread off talking about how I'd been reassessing the gear to see what I could let go (and how I'd feel about that). That turned into finding the SG - but I started out thinking that I'd probably keep the ES345 and let the Tele go. Now I'm either going to let the ES345 go and keep the Tele or let both go. I think that if Operation Riviera comes off (that's an 'in progress' plan) then I'll replace a vintage ES with a vintage Epiphone, a vintage Telecaster with a vintage SG and in the process put more money towards Despot Towers (ultimate edition). I know that having this SG I won't miss the Telecaster - and I think the Jazzmaster is my version of a Telecaster anyway, so I've that base covered with Sully. The SG will cover a good deal of ground too (and gives me a different set of sounds than the historic ES345) ... and hopefully the Riviera (if it comes off) will give me something else.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by zhivago » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:56 am

Great looking SG! :-*

Best of luck with the re-shuffle...I am sure you'll find the right combination of what to keep and let go :)
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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by DavidG » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:32 am

Really nice SG. A few weeks ago I sold my own 69 SG, coming to a similar thought process. I thought id never sell that, but I thought that about the 64 Jag and 67 ES330 too.

I only have a 65 mustang left, everything else is relatively newer, cheaper, everything works and is shiny. I guess I'm keeping the mustang as a reminder of what a vintage guitar looks and feels like. This will play out in one of the two scenarios:

1. "Oh my Johnny Marr Jag feels as good as the Mustang and who could need anymore, I'm good with what I've got".

2. "This Mustang dumps all over my newer guitars from a great height. Sell my kidney and buy back everything".

Not regretting it...yet.

Lovely SG though. Mine had a really thin neck which was typical from this era of gibson. It put some buyers off but it was so effortless to play in my opinion. Humbuckers were great clean too, not often that I find that.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by Zork » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:49 am

That color is just :? I prefer this brownish hue much over the red.
Congrats.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by fortytwo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:27 am

That is one tasty SG. Nice score.
A friend of mine has one almost like it, it plays really nice.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by garyfanclub » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am

Awesome, and I’m not an SG guy. Love that vibrato tailpiece, wish they’d revive them on a non CS guitar and I’d be in the market.

Would love this exact guitar with P90s!

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by Despot » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:08 am

Zork wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:49 am
That color is just :? I prefer this brownish hue much over the red.
Congrats.
I actually like the red ones - but not the vibrant early '60s cherry red ... more the '66/'67 slightly darker red before they went to the dark cherry that usually fades out to brown like mine.

It's funny - in sunlight the guitar looks quite brown, whereas under artificial light the guitar looks dark red.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by Despot » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:10 am

garyfanclub wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am
Awesome, and I’m not an SG guy. Love that vibrato tailpiece, wish they’d revive them on a non CS guitar and I’d be in the market.

Would love this exact guitar with P90s!
I love maestro trems - it seems on Gibsons that Bigsbys get most of the love, but I much prefer the subtlety you get with the maestro. This one is well worn in - nice and smooth and holds tuning.

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Re: NGD - 1969 Gibson SG Standard (pics added)

Post by Despot » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:13 am

fortytwo wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:27 am
That is one tasty SG. Nice score.
A friend of mine has one almost like it, it plays really nice.
Yeah - this one too. So much fun to play. I'm used to playing ES guitars, which are a lot of fun to play and have great upper fret access ... but the SG is just a different thing - though I am getting used to how 'long' the neck feels compared to other guitars - I know that probably doesn't make a lot of sense - but it's like Firebirds; when you're playing one on a strap it sits with the neck further off towards my playing hand and it's just something I'm getting used to.

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