Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Despot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:21 am

So ... OSG. I need some help.

As the topic mentions, I'm suffering from some non-offset GAS of the highest order. There have been a few recent trades (rather than purchases) that have led to a thinning of the herd, but also brought about the '62 ES 330 and '65 SG Junior.

However, I am gas-ing hard. The object of this gas is a 1969 SG Custom ... in exceptional condition, that also happens to be a glorious playing and sounding guitar.

I should point out that I love SG Standards with big guards - I've long lusted after an original lyre vibrola big guard SG, but it's been on the long finger in terms of something I might take a punt at. I've disregarded small guard Standards (let alone small guard Customs) on the basis that they're prohibitively expensive.

Later '60s Customs are rare as hen's teeth and I'd never expected to see one turn up - let alone to be able to possible trade for one.

The herd has thinned out to the extent that the only two guitars that could potentially be on the block for a trade are my custom shop ES 355 (which is a varitone/vibrola ES355 with an invisible headstock repair upgraded with OX4 pickups to replace the original terrible '57 Classics) and a late '90s Nashville CS ES335 '59 reissue (fitted with Bareknuckles). I could possibly swing a trade of both guitars for the SG Custom (guessing I could anyway).

The ES355 is a lovely guitar to play unplugged - but I've had constant issues with it. It's not, as far as I can gather, due to the headstock repair (which is stable and done so well that you can only see it under a strong direct light - and can't feel it at all). I think it's a combination of a poorly cut nut and saddle slots. I've also been struggling with pickups for it - the original '57 Classics were terrible (I think these pickups only work in SGs - not at all in ES guitars - but in SGs they're great) and while the OX4s are certainly better sounding, I keep putting it up against the other guitar (the ES335) and the bareknuckles just sound ... well ... better.

The ES335 is a Nashville custom shop - it's a joy of a guitar and I would truly miss it. It's got that big old '59 neck and a level of workmanship that you just don't see in Gibsons as much anymore. The only chink in its armour was due to the '57 Classics - which are now gone and replaced with Mule/Bareknuckles. I know some people dislike these pickups ... but putting them up against the PAFs in my ES345 they're as close as I've heard in a new pickup. That ES335 is just a solid, great playing and sounding guitar.

Of the two though I'd miss both, I'd really miss the ES335. It's just a fantastic guitar.

Here's the problem - that SG Custom is a stunning guitar. Not just in terms of it being old, or pretty (which it absolutely is) ... but it plays better than any old guitar I've ever picked up, and it has THAT SG sound that I've always liked. Being a Custom it's also fairly rare which could bode well for it's resale value much further down the line.

I'm also struggling to justify having three humbucker ES guitars - and the reality is that as good as the ES355 and ES335 are, there's a 1962 ES345 there that isn't going to be sold (ever) and ... well ... as good as these new guitars are they're not a patch on the vintage one.

So - OSG ... what do you think? Give up two great guitars (one of which I know I'll regret trading) for one really really great guitar, or else just cop myself on and ignore the GAS?

User avatar
MattK
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by MattK » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:41 am

If it plays that well, nothing else will scratch the itch.
Trade the 355 plus some cash. Or - insanity - trade the SG Jr plus the 355 plus or minus the cash. Since the SG Custom would presumably take care of the SG Jr territory, pickup difference aside. Probably not. But I thought maybe that hadn't occurred.
But your original idea - two modern guitars for a vintage - doesn't seem like a bad idea since they can be replaced more easily down the track if you regret it.

User avatar
PorkyPrimeCut
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 24464
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Leipzig
Contact:

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:00 am

Strange that this should come up now.

I was watching Mark Agnesi doing his Saturday instalment of Guitar Of The Day & he was playing an early 70s SG. When he went through the specs he pointed out changes made to the specs during the 70s & I inevitably ended up Googling 60s SGs to drool over the wider blocks & the Lyre tailpieces.

It's rare that I ever pick guitars up to play in shops but years ago Wunjo had a walnut SG for what seemed like months. I tried it out once & absolutely loved it. Totally not me as a guitar but I'd have gladly tried to change that, had I got the £2500 they were asking for it.
You think you can't, you wish you could, I know you can, I wish you would. Slip inside this house as you pass by.

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Despot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:13 am

MatthewK wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:41 am
If it plays that well, nothing else will scratch the itch.
Trade the 355 plus some cash. Or - insanity - trade the SG Jr plus the 355 plus or minus the cash. Since the SG Custom would presumably take care of the SG Jr territory, pickup difference aside. Probably not. But I thought maybe that hadn't occurred.
But your original idea - two modern guitars for a vintage - doesn't seem like a bad idea since they can be replaced more easily down the track if you regret it.
Thanks for that - I had considered trading back the white SG for the Custom, as originally (when I got the white one) I had gone in to check out the Custom. It had been 'on hold' at the time so I didn't even try it out; I made that mistake once before and fell heavily for a guitar that was already sold/awaiting pick up. But while the Custom and Junior share a body shape, they are fundamentally quite different sounding guitars. The Junior is ... well ... a Junior. I've wanted to find either an SG or LP Junior that I could hold onto for quite a while. The white one is 'the one' for me.

The Custom is a different beast. It's got that neck pickup SG sound that I love (which someone once mentioned is due to SGs having their neck pickup a little further away from the end of the neck, compared to most Gibsons that have their pickup right at the end of the neck) - and a fantastic sounding set of pickups. The middle is that out-of-phase sound that I could really do without ... but it's got great sounding bridge and neck pickups.

Hmmm....

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Despot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:20 am

PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:00 am
Strange that this should come up now.

I was watching Mark Agnesi doing his Saturday instalment of Guitar Of The Day & he was playing an early 70s SG. When he went through the specs he pointed out changes made to the specs during the 70s & I inevitably ended up Googling 60s SGs to drool over the wider blocks & the Lyre tailpieces.

It's rare that I ever pick guitars up to play in shops but years ago Wunjo had a walnut SG for what seemed like months. I tried it out once & absolutely loved it. Totally not me as a guitar but I'd have gladly tried to change that, had I got the £2500 they were asking for it.
You see I get you in terms of the shape of a SG and the sort of rawk connection not being ... well .. very me. I don't play AC/DC or whatever people usually play whenever they pick up a SG. My first Gibson was a black SG Standard from about 1996/7 ... and I never bonded with it. It sounded muddy and dark to me back in the day.

Old SGs though ... they've got a sound that I love. And I play mostly clean (or just a little bit driven). There's a sort of bright/open sound to them while still having plenty of body - not the bright but slightly thin sound of say a Rickenbacker or Jag bridge pickup. A lot of that is due to those t-tops (I've often said they're the most unfairly maligned of Gibson pickups - they're not a PAF, but they manage to do other things that a PAF can't really do as well). I generally love guitars with mid/late '60s Patent Numbers in them.

So combine the t-top sound with that neck SG sound (I'm mostly a neck pickup player when I play alone) and I'm done. Done.

This is a tough one though ... whatever I do I'll regret it. If that Custom sells I'll kick myself for not taking a punt at it - and if I trade out the 355 and 335 for it I'll regret losing the 335 (for sure).

The good way to look at it is whatever I do I'll end up having a great guitar either way (either the Custom or that 335). :)

User avatar
MattK
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by MattK » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:34 am

355 plus cash then - eat toast for a few months instead of going out.

User avatar
shadowplay
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 25930
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Glasgow. Scotland
Contact:

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by shadowplay » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:44 am

Would you make or lose money? I'd normally always go for quality over quantity but losing money would burn deep inside.

I'm a bit like you with the SG, I don't like the image, the looks or 99% of folk that ever played them but I've played a couple of great ones that gave me pause.

I depends what you really like or where you want your whole guitar thing to shake out. I guess with me it's the same with cars and I know exactly where I want to end up with that.

D
Are you loathsome tonight?

User avatar
PorkyPrimeCut
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 24464
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Leipzig
Contact:

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:50 am

Despot wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:20 am
You see I get you in terms of the shape of a SG and the sort of rawk connection not being ... well .. very me.
While we're briefly discussing aesthetics, I think this is why I love the walnut ones so much. Black, cherry or white ones immediately make me think of the rawk you mention. Walnut however, I guess it's far less showy & more akin to the 60s-70s, psychedelic stoner rock that floats my boat.
You think you can't, you wish you could, I know you can, I wish you would. Slip inside this house as you pass by.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Embenny » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:58 am

This is an aside, but if you think the CS 355's issues are from the saddle and nut...have you not taken it to a great tech for a new nut and a TonePros replacement bridge?

Surely that caliber of guitar deserves a great setup to see what you can get out of it, playability-wise?

If you have to give up a guitar you love in order to buy this SG (and it sounds like you would), then it sounds like you will regret it. The winds of GAS are ever-shifting, and if you can't buy it outright or trade guitars you haven't bonded with for it, then you're just kinda pissing into the wind. Trading away an axe you love is not the answer, in my opinion.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Despot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:12 am

shadowplay wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:44 am
Would you make or lose money? I'd normally always go for quality over quantity but losing money would burn deep inside.

I'm a bit like you with the SG, I don't like the image, the looks or 99% of folk that ever played them but I've played a couple of great ones that gave me pause.

I depends what you really like or where you want your whole guitar thing to shake out. I guess with me it's the same with cars and I know exactly where I want to end up with that.

D
I'd break even on it. And I'm like you D ... I always try to at least hold even in my trades. Right now my priority in terms of cash is in buying my own place.

The guitars are paid for and in a lot of cases built up on stuff that I was able to buy over the years at fairly cheap prices. I have made a few quid on some things, lost on a few (burned on one guitar a few years back that was a valuable lesson) and as sad as it sounds I keep an excel tracking stuff in and out (and sometimes to kick myself adjusting the 'out' column for price increases since they were traded or sold to remind myself why I should keep some stuff for longer than a year or two). In that excel I'm slightly up overall - but it's a few hundred euro over countless trades, sales and purchases in the last five years. A lot of that 'profit' margin is in two guitars I'll never part with though ... so it's not real money.

Anyway ... I guess the point is that I could straight trade for it with those two guitars and break even.

Matthewk - re: cash + 355 ... see above. House purchase is where all my 'spare' money is going these days. The upside of meeting Lady Despot is that for the first time in a very long time I think of a future that's not temporary - the downside is that I'm now repaying years of living a feckless life by saving pretty much every euro I can.

Also there's part of me that appreciates the hurt of letting something go. It's a good way to ensure that I don't do something reckless in a trade - though it does make me agonise over it sometimes. I know that I'd miss that 335 - but I also know that the Custom is something really special.

Mark/D - whilst I've been lusting after a large guard late '60s SG what has always stopped me has been the association with certain rawk music/bands/guitarists. The first person that springs to mind when I think of a walnut/cream guard Custom is the guitarist from The Roots. I'm a sort of passing fan of that band and I'm a lot more comfortable with that association than others. That the only guitarist I can think of being associated with this model is Captain Kirk is sort of a good thing.

I'm going to mull on this for a few days I think - sometimes that sorts the GAS in that the guitar could well sell before the weekend when I would be next available to check it out, or a few hours spent with the 'offerings' will convince me that I can't put them on the trade block.

User avatar
MattK
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by MattK » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:39 am

2 things: sometimes actually taking a step toward doing it can tell you more clearly how you feel, e.g. asking if the 335/355 trade would be acceptable. Also they may say "sure, plus $1000 from you" which might make your mind up pretty quickly.
And second - the SG Custom is by no means just a "rawk" guitar:
Image
(although Sister Rosetta did put down some pretty meaty licks)

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Despot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:01 am

It's funny seeing a sideways trem that looks like new! And yeah ... when I see a sideways trem on an SG Custom that's the guitar I think of...

User avatar
Logrinn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:08 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Logrinn » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 am

I always think of the one with a Vibrola trem:

Image

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Despot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:25 am

Those are lovely guitars - but they're way outside my price range these days!

User avatar
Unicorn Warrior
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3491
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Kentucky, USA

Re: Trade/GAS help! Talk me out of this...

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:44 pm

My question to you is this: What would you regret more? Trading your guitars or passing up this SG.

If it were me, I'd make the trade. Life is all about experiences. You can hang on to those, but that SG is an heirloom unto itself

Post Reply