gibson bankruptcy discussion thread
- Axolotl
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1270
- Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:06 am
Re: gibson going under.
They are going under bigtime... look at the fresh monstrosities they want to sell for almost 5k...
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... XCPSL11113
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... XCPSL11113
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?
- Despot
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 5759
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
- Location: Wexford, Ireland
Re: gibson going under.
I'm sure it has a market.
I'm not sure it's a huge market, especially considering the price of nearly 5k USD!
I'm not sure it's a huge market, especially considering the price of nearly 5k USD!
-
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2831
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:12 am
- Location: U.S. of fuckin' A.
Re: gibson going under.
"http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... XCPSL11113
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?"
First thought when I saw these: lots of people are going to want this garbage.
First thought when I saw the price: Wow, nobody is going to buy these.
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?"
First thought when I saw these: lots of people are going to want this garbage.
First thought when I saw the price: Wow, nobody is going to buy these.
- Squirrel
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 593
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:55 am
- Location: England
Re: gibson going under.
My thoughts exactly. If they were priced the same as a Les Paul Studio or a bit higher I could see a lot of these being bought as christmas presents for the sort of shitty little 13 year old kids who beat up other kids for not listening to Metallica, but for $4900, nope. I know that's MSRP and they'll actually end up selling for considerably less than that, but still.Singlebladepickup wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:22 pmFirst thought when I saw these: lots of people are going to want this garbage.
First thought when I saw the price: Wow, nobody is going to buy these.
- sookwinder
- Mods
- Posts: 11179
- Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:47 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: gibson going under.
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...
- sookwinder
- Mods
- Posts: 11179
- Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:47 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: gibson going under.
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...
- Larry Mal
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 19723
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
- Location: Saint Louis, MO
Re: gibson going under.
Man, that is some garbage in that first video you have up. It looks like they used a tool other than a drill for that one hole. A chisel or something.
It's funny, I never get Gibsons with any quality problems, but I can't argue against the sheer volume of what I see on the internet. It's clear that there is a certain percentage of defects that is allowed to roll off the factory floor. I say "allowed to" because it's clear that they have decided that it's more cost effective to deal with slop and returns and such rather than to actually make sure that every instrument is perfect.
Which is a fine business strategy, I don't care greatly, but it's only a good one it if actually works.
I will say that I spent some time with my old Les Paul Studio from 1991, I think. For some reason I decided to put in some shielding in the guitar, actually a hobby of mine at the moment is shielding instruments. I'm that exciting of a person these days.
Anyway, it was actually shielded very well for the most part, I did put a little more copper tape in the pickup cavities and in the control panel access cavity, but most of it was already well shielded.
I mention this because it's a sign when a guitar isn't shielded properly to me that the company who made the guitar just didn't give a fuck. You can see it with Fender guitars over the years, they started off shielded pretty well and then you get to my American Standard Telecaster that was just a bunch of bare wood.
And so are my more recent Gibsons, including a three P-90 equipped Firebird that is just electronics and plastic, not a whit of electronic shielding in the guitar whatsoever. I don't recall that their was shielded wire in there either, I think it was just a bunch of exposed electronics.
I can't say that doesn't indicate a step down in quality to me. You can kind of bullshit your way around with a humbucker equipped guitar, but one with three P90s? To not shield that would just indicate that you didn't give a fuck.
It's funny, I never get Gibsons with any quality problems, but I can't argue against the sheer volume of what I see on the internet. It's clear that there is a certain percentage of defects that is allowed to roll off the factory floor. I say "allowed to" because it's clear that they have decided that it's more cost effective to deal with slop and returns and such rather than to actually make sure that every instrument is perfect.
Which is a fine business strategy, I don't care greatly, but it's only a good one it if actually works.
I will say that I spent some time with my old Les Paul Studio from 1991, I think. For some reason I decided to put in some shielding in the guitar, actually a hobby of mine at the moment is shielding instruments. I'm that exciting of a person these days.
Anyway, it was actually shielded very well for the most part, I did put a little more copper tape in the pickup cavities and in the control panel access cavity, but most of it was already well shielded.
I mention this because it's a sign when a guitar isn't shielded properly to me that the company who made the guitar just didn't give a fuck. You can see it with Fender guitars over the years, they started off shielded pretty well and then you get to my American Standard Telecaster that was just a bunch of bare wood.
And so are my more recent Gibsons, including a three P-90 equipped Firebird that is just electronics and plastic, not a whit of electronic shielding in the guitar whatsoever. I don't recall that their was shielded wire in there either, I think it was just a bunch of exposed electronics.
I can't say that doesn't indicate a step down in quality to me. You can kind of bullshit your way around with a humbucker equipped guitar, but one with three P90s? To not shield that would just indicate that you didn't give a fuck.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.
- burpgun
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 826
- Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:15 am
- Location: east coast
Re: gibson going under.
Here's some fresh fodder for Gibson haters, although it's not entirely guitar centric. Some of you may be old enough to remember when the guitar company bought Opcode Vision music production software and then killed it off. Well, now they're doing it with Cakewalk in some apparent play to concentrate on consumer electronics. I don't understand how a company buys companies that aren't even threats to its main business and then simply shuts them down. Clownish. http://cdm.link/2017/11/gibson-just-kil ... k-philips/
- sookwinder
- Mods
- Posts: 11179
- Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:47 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: gibson going under.
same thing happened with WINAMP ... bought by another company and then shut down
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...
- ifallalot
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 659
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:58 am
- Location: Huntington Beach
Re: gibson going under.
Looks to be about 30 years lateAxolotl wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:03 amThey are going under bigtime... look at the fresh monstrosities they want to sell for almost 5k...
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... XCPSL11113
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: gibson going under.
Dear lord, what could they actually be thinking there?ifallalot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:20 amLooks to be about 30 years lateAxolotl wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:03 amThey are going under bigtime... look at the fresh monstrosities they want to sell for almost 5k...
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... XCPSL11113
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?
Maybe some lawyer or CEO who goes to work wearing spandex under his suit wants to crank out some Poison riffs in style?
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- starflower
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:54 am
- Location: Seoul
- Contact:
Re: gibson going under.
I couldn't stop scrolling the lengthy row of guitars to see how many dozen models are priced at least $5000. Most of them even look almost "normal", yet I can't grasp the assertion that such prices are supposed to be normal.
Sound Director & Composer at Sangwha / General Manager at Moollon Guitars. https://soundcloud.com/andi-roselund
- Larry Mal
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 19723
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
- Location: Saint Louis, MO
Re: gibson going under.
You know what I just noticed? That shred guitar has the return of a good Gibson idea, although they aren't calling it that, but the headstock volute is back on that model.Axolotl wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:03 am
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric ... XCPSL11113
Neon colors, floyd rose, richlite (?) fretboard. Who the hell is going to buy that, seriously?
Holy shit. I wish they would just put it back on all the guitars already.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.
- RuffiansFC
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2980
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:12 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, FL
- Contact:
Re: gibson going under.
if you want to spend that kind of cash on a Made in Kalamazoo Gibson style guitar, Heritage Guitars is an option. Not sure what is up with their site, but they are still kicking. Used prices are about on par with similar used Nashville Gibsons.
- Rob
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:31 am
- Location: Lexington, KY, US
Re: gibson going under.
A lot of good points being made, but most of them are (understandably) focused on the guitars. Without giving any credit to Gibson's current jackass CEO, I'm inclined to think maybe they're playing the long-game.
Gibson knows electric guitars are in decline, both commercially and culturally. Over the past decade or so, they've acquired a bunch of electronics firms (Philips, TEAC, WOOx) and expanded their pro audio and R&D divisions. As a result, three-quarters of Gibson's revenue now comes from consumer electronics. Crazy as it may sound, I wouldn't be surprised if Gibson's management is already thinking of the guitars as just an unprofitable side-business. It would certainly explain some of the head-scratchers we've seen from Gibson in recent years.
But, as everyone here has already pointed out, it's a rough market across the board. Manufacturers rely on retailers, and Guitar Center spread like a virus in the 2000s and wiped out most of the smaller guys. The few who survived are primarily high-end dealers selling over the internet. Fender is a quarter-billion in debt. Gibson is a half-billion in debt. Worse, Guitar Center is well over a billion in debt, owes tens of millions to manufacturers like Gibson and Fender, and is currently putting out debt restructuring feelers to stave off bankruptcy. Fender tried to pay down some of its debt by going public earlier in the decade, but withdrew the IPO due to lack of investor confidence.
TL;DR: The rock band is the backbone of electric guitar sales, but most pop music (and most music in general these days) just doesn't require an electric guitar. All you really need is a computer or a smart phone -- and most kids have both. Until the electric guitar returns to prominence, the "big guys" like Gibson and Fender might have to scale back to "medium guys."
Gibson knows electric guitars are in decline, both commercially and culturally. Over the past decade or so, they've acquired a bunch of electronics firms (Philips, TEAC, WOOx) and expanded their pro audio and R&D divisions. As a result, three-quarters of Gibson's revenue now comes from consumer electronics. Crazy as it may sound, I wouldn't be surprised if Gibson's management is already thinking of the guitars as just an unprofitable side-business. It would certainly explain some of the head-scratchers we've seen from Gibson in recent years.
But, as everyone here has already pointed out, it's a rough market across the board. Manufacturers rely on retailers, and Guitar Center spread like a virus in the 2000s and wiped out most of the smaller guys. The few who survived are primarily high-end dealers selling over the internet. Fender is a quarter-billion in debt. Gibson is a half-billion in debt. Worse, Guitar Center is well over a billion in debt, owes tens of millions to manufacturers like Gibson and Fender, and is currently putting out debt restructuring feelers to stave off bankruptcy. Fender tried to pay down some of its debt by going public earlier in the decade, but withdrew the IPO due to lack of investor confidence.
TL;DR: The rock band is the backbone of electric guitar sales, but most pop music (and most music in general these days) just doesn't require an electric guitar. All you really need is a computer or a smart phone -- and most kids have both. Until the electric guitar returns to prominence, the "big guys" like Gibson and Fender might have to scale back to "medium guys."