gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

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PixMix
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Re: gibson going under.

Post by PixMix » Tue May 01, 2018 8:04 am

Nobody will be surprised about Gibson going chapter 11. As much as I dislike Henry for many, many reasons, I still hope Gibson survives. My best playing guitar is a 2013 Gibson LP Standard. I think they should live to make more guitars like that.

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Re: gibson going under.

Post by Larry Mal » Tue May 01, 2018 8:12 am

They aren't going to go under. They fucked up, and will be made to reorganize and will have to sell off some things like Onkyo to pay off their bills, but the whole point of Chapter 11 is to allow a company to get the time they need in order to put their house back in order.

And from what I understand, it's just that Gibson extended themselves too fast- and stupidly- in order to get into "lifestyle" brands and that is what will have to be sold off. But I think that the guitar portion of the Gibson enterprise was still lucrative, although it could probably benefit from some restructuring also.

Who knows. I know that Henry J is a little loved person, and he's sure going to go out poorly, because he's a 65 year old man and even if he's allowed to be part of this bankruptcy proceedings, he won't be at the helm of Gibson for much longer.

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. This could be where Bain Capital sweeps in and drinks all the blood of Gibson leaving behind only a hunk. Or it could be what probably should happen, a leaner and meaner Gibson emerges from the trainwreck of Henry J's folly.

Literally anything is possible, but what this does not mean is Gibson shutting the doors or anything.
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Re: gibson going under.

Post by Mechanical Birds » Tue May 01, 2018 9:18 am

The report I read said that yeah, they’re gonna sell all the dumb shit and focus on guitars like they should have been doing in the first place.

Love the idea of them making amps again but would probably be hilarious to see after all the messes they got into with anything other than guitars.

See ya never gibson

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Re: gibson going under.

Post by Singlebladepickup » Tue May 01, 2018 9:46 am

I wouldn't buy them, but I bet Gibson could sell units if they made a portable amp ala Roland Cube and made some tiny doohickey to be able to transmit wirelessly to their guitars. While the company should get rid of their current non-guitar related stuff, I think they should try to move into other non-guitar instruments. Would it kill the brand to make some cheap synths/keys or some kind of drum kit like the old Gretsch ones? A gibson branded tube reverb/trem/delay unit would be pretty cool if done right...meaning leather instead of tolex and big gold script. They just need to stick to instruments and bring a little bit of something new.

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gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by s_mcsleazy » Tue May 01, 2018 11:12 am

i realised now i should change the name of this thread.



anyway. looking at it now, gibson really over reached. there is no denying that. what do you guys think an improved gibson would be like? what would it entale (i've never seen that word typed)
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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by Grey » Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 am

Who wants to buy my pre-bankruptcy guitar? It's got more tonez than those post-bankruptcy models.

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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by thenewromance » Tue May 01, 2018 11:22 am

Grey wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 am
Who wants to buy my pre-bankruptcy guitar? It's got more tonez than those post-bankruptcy models.
You bet that's gonna be a thing.

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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by eskmsaul » Tue May 01, 2018 11:26 am

thenewromance wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:22 am
Grey wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 am
Who wants to buy my pre-bankruptcy guitar? It's got more tonez than those post-bankruptcy models.
You bet that's gonna be a thing.
It's not the reason I bought it, but I joked about that when I bought my new LP special, haha!!

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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by s_mcsleazy » Tue May 01, 2018 12:04 pm

thenewromance wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:22 am
Grey wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 am
Who wants to buy my pre-bankruptcy guitar? It's got more tonez than those post-bankruptcy models.
You bet that's gonna be a thing.
does that mean even guitars fitted with the robot tuners will be desirable?
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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by Larry Mal » Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 pm

Well, I feel it's going to be a thing. I think it's very easy to imagine that the Gibson lineup will be dumbed down quite a bit.

I also feel like the Henry J era guitars are excellent, and will be a high water mark for Gibson. I've owned a couple of dozen of the things, if not more. They've all been very good, and while I can easily think of ways that they could be made better I am also absolutely not of the belief that whatever comes next will provide that.

Like I say, I know everyone believes that they should be able to get the handcrafted '59 Les Paul experience at the price of a Mexican made Fender, but that is not what is coming your way after this bankruptcy. There's a slim chance that Gibson will pivot towards being a smaller operation, but they aren't going to be any less automated than they are now, they own the machines, you know?

Chances are much greater that there will be some kind of ownership consortium that concludes that the electric guitar market is oversaturated and the way to compete is by minimizing production costs and maximizing sales volume, and probably overseas labor will be declared to be what is needed to "be competitive". If that happens, you can bet your ass that American made Henry J era instruments will be much more valued than they are now.

I'm also dismissive of the idea that Gibson currently is making bad guitars with poor quality control. I'm know it happens, but I think that this is very much over-hyped by internet bullshit and I'll offer my pretty deep experience of Gibson guitar ownership to refute that. If they had a huge problem with quality control, I would know it without question by now.
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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by Grey » Tue May 01, 2018 12:22 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 pm
Like I say, I know everyone believes that they should be able to get the handcrafted '59 Les Paul experience at the price of a Mexican made Fender, but that is not what is coming your way after this bankruptcy.
You've said this before but where does that perception come from? Gibson has some of the most expensive guitars on the market, I don't know how many they sell but I do know there are people buying them, and i'm not even talking about their Custom Shop guitars. Is there anyone really demanding a "handcrafted '59 Les Paul" for ~$800?

It should also be said (not to anyone in particular) that while they are selling some of the most expensive production-line guitars on the market, they're also selling some of the cheapest MIA instruments on the market. The "SGJ" is a $600 guitar.

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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by Larry Mal » Tue May 01, 2018 12:29 pm

Well, I'm using that as an extreme example to prove or fail to prove a point as the case may be. I just often wonder what people really think that Gibson is actually able to do.

And you are correct, Gibson has made an effort to hit an awful lot of price points and I feel they've been pretty successful. The M2 I had was pretty crude and I wonder why they bothered making that when Epiphone is competitive at that price point already, it was a holiday novelty more than anything. But when you hit that $500-700 range Gibson has a lot of nice things that I'd be happy to own.
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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by Jaguar018 » Tue May 01, 2018 2:22 pm

I have never gotten the impression from anyone that everyone is clamoring for Les Paul Customs at Epiphone Indonesia prices. Somehow they get a pass because the necks aren’t bolt-ons. People whine about the prices for sure, but not as much as Fender.

Totally agree that the QC issue is overblown. Aside from the auto-tuners and the Firebird X, I think most of their stuff, top-to-bottom, has been pretty cool.

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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by StevenO » Tue May 01, 2018 3:41 pm

I have to say, I've been put off by Gibsons for awhile precisely due to the quality control for the price they go for. I had a Gibson SG Classic that had a slight neck twist to it (the guy I sold it to didn't seem to care, but it bugged the shit out of me since they were around $1300 new here), I've played a few brand new Gibson Acoustics that seemed to need neck resets right away (probably due to using too green of wood), another shop had put a bunch of their stock on sale because the tops we're sinking, and I remember taking off the rack a Gibson Melody Maker (back when they had P90s and looked like thinner Juniors) and after playing a few chords and wondering why the guitar played so weird, I looked at the nut and saw that nobody at the factory had cut the slots for the high E and B strings and instead they were just hanging on the nut by tension.

So yeah, while these are just anecdotal, it's enough to put off people from their guitars for a long time. It doesn't take much, really. They have work to do to make right these wrongs, at least from a perception amongst the general guitar playing public.

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Re: gibson bankruptcy discussion thread

Post by stevejamsecono » Tue May 01, 2018 5:58 pm

To answer the previous question, my "ideal" Gibson would be like this (and this probably won't happen):

Take the same route Fender did in the 80s, to a T. Sell the company back to players who care about the company. Reissue the 50s/60s Gibsons in a slimmed down lineup and at a reasonable competitive price point. Don't bother with modernizing them aside from potentially color choices. The fact that they haven't made more of a thing out of the Junior line in the last 10-15 years given the trends in guitar music is frankly astounding to me and I think it's a waste that they don't. If I could have bought a double cut LP Junior in the faded series circa 2005 or so I would have been thrilled and bought 6 of them.

Kill all the weird/special/experimental Gibsons because I don't know a soul who cares about these things or wants one.

Just do that, make good guitars for awhile, get them in the hands of new players, and take back your market share. Honestly, I think one of the reasons Reverend is killing it so much lately is they've really gotten into the hands of some awesome new talent.
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