Is the love affair over? No! Modding the Ultrasonic....

[FrankRay]

That 63 starfire looks really purty, doesn't it? ?

[PorkyPrimeCut]

That 63 starfire looks really purty, doesn't it? ?

Just......stop it!!

[cestlamort]

That 63 starfire looks really purty, doesn't it? ?

Just......stop it!!

It does look lovely and is a pretty early one. And, at the least, would be a good opportunity to play one in person. (It does seem a bit pricey to me, but I'm used to the US prices. Maybe check with the letstalkguild folks). As others have said, the Guild humbuckers are really really nice and much more articulate than you'd expect.

I recently started playing my SFIII in a different project and it is a wonderful guitar (it was my first "real" guitar and will be the last out the door when it comes to that).

Personally, I'd be a little wary of some of the older Gretsch's (esp. sight unseen), as the quality wasn't always the best and there were some issues with the glue in the binding not aging well.

[elektrovac]

Also, I have a Reuss Repeater Fuzz pedal which gets very, very close to the guitars tone

Happy to hear that! Well, if you end up parting with the Ultrasonic, you might find some comfort in the fact that I am preparing a micro pedal containing the treble/bass booster, built to the vintage schematic, using a nos BC109 transistor. It's designed as an add-on to put in front of the Repeater Fuzz pedal. Throwing a wah in-between the two will give you the full effects chain of the Ultrasonic, plus the boost of the Repeater Fuzz pedal to compensate for the volume drop. I have the complete PCB and graphics designs lying around, just waiting for me to get enough cash to start the production.

[mgeek]

The one at the top of the thread is a similar era one to mine, 64/65, but mine has the UK issue Selmer Bigsby, which came with an aluminium compensated bridge...which I sort of feel are THE best for getting the most out of a semi, having played around with a few options. Sounds incredible...

This comment got me thinking & I can't get the idea out of my head now, so I'm back. I think I might try out one of these bridges. Any chance you can post a pic or link to your bridge? I've looked at Gretsch ones that look the part. I know the rollers are supposed to aid the tremolo but, frankly, I think I'm going to remove the arm anyway. Re-tuning every time I use it is soul destroying.

I also think I need to drill the 6 string neck & see if it works out. The neck pocket will be a little roomy around the edges as it was cut for the wider neck (I discussed this in length, years ago, on this forum) but I don't really have anything to lose. I think I'm done with 12-string electrics, for now.
I'm also thinking, a little more radically, about removing the Palm Wah, at least the part that's visible. It's just a hindrance. Ideally I'd take the whole circuit out as it's been re-wired at least once already so I won't be knocking off any more value. I'll obviously keep anything I remove, in case I do decide to sell.

I've got something like this on my Hofner. They are designed to work with a Bigsby- ie the bottom of the top half of it is shaped like a wedge so it moves with the strings when you use the trem. Depending on setup etc, it actually works really well. I'd never been much of a trem botherer, but it's kind of addictive, and it does keep in tune.

http://www.guitarpartsworldwide.com/s2g ... BR_CHR.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure how the og bridge is mounted on the Vox, or if they would be compatible, but I think you could put one of these on a guitar made of cheese and get a good tone. Alternatively- a jazzmaster etc bridge will sound better than the og, fit the Vox holes, and it'd just be a matter of drilling out the legs to get it to work.

I wouldn't worry about the neck gap- just solid it up with a bit of veneer...don't even need to glue it or anything., it'll just stop things shifting about

[PorkyPrimeCut]

I've got something like this on my Hofner. They are designed to work with a Bigsby- ie the bottom of the top half of it is shaped like a wedge so it moves with the strings when you use the trem. Depending on setup etc, it actually works really well. I'd never been much of a trem botherer, but it's kind of addictive, and it does keep in tune.

http://www.guitarpartsworldwide.com/s2g ... BR_CHR.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure how the og bridge is mounted on the Vox, or if they would be compatible, but I think you could put one of these on a guitar made of cheese and get a good tone. Alternatively- a jazzmaster etc bridge will sound better than the og, fit the Vox holes, and it'd just be a matter of drilling out the legs to get it to work.

I wouldn't worry about the neck gap- just solid it up with a bit of veneer...don't even need to glue it or anything., it'll just stop things shifting about

Thanks for the pic. The vibrato (I need to start using the correct term for it!) on the Vox is based around a Bigsby so it looks ideal.

[mgeek]

Yeah the one on my Phantom is pretty much the same, only horseshoe shaped instead of having the Vox logo-ed tail...

No idea how that functions though cos I'm missing the arm and spring!

[PorkyPrimeCut]

Yeah the one on my Phantom is pretty much the same, only horseshoe shaped instead of having the Vox logo-ed tail...

No idea how that functions though cos I'm missing the arm and spring!

It functions as you'd expect really. Just like a Bigsby. It just seems to go out of tune very easily. As a 12 string that's a nightmare because you have to be very careful you don't hit the other string tuned to another octave. It's bad enough doing it in my living room, I can't imagine what it'd be like doing it on stage in a noisy venue, relying entirely on a tuner. As a 6 string though, it'd be like any other 6 string guitar. It probably wouldn't bother me at all.
The tuners could be a cause of this too, even though they look to be high quality (each one has the Vox logo stamped on the casing & individually they feel very solid & sturdy. This was a top of the range guitar). I'll leave it in its case for a week, fish it out & see if it's dropped out of tune much. Then take things from there.

In other news, the shop selling the Starfire II hasn't responded to my emails. One through the website enquiries function, the other sent directly to "sales". The mention of an unmolested Vox Ultrasonic in fantastic condition doesn't seem to have caught their attention. Maybe I'll call them.

[mgeek]

Yeah the one on my Phantom is pretty much the same, only horseshoe shaped instead of having the Vox logo-ed tail...

No idea how that functions though cos I'm missing the arm and spring!

It functions as you'd expect really. Just like a Bigsby. It just seems to go out of tune very easily.

Aah yeah, but the spring is much narrower than a Bigsby, and it's got that row of plastic rollers instead of the strings leaving the spindle at a usefully low height, and Vox *always* teamed them up with totally shat bridges... I'm not sure what to expect!

[PorkyPrimeCut]

So, as part of the "I think I'm buying a Guild Starfire" saga I'm giving my old Ultrasonic a last run for its money.

I've an old Eko 12 string acoustic (that rarely gets played) so that'll scratch my XII itch, should I get one from time to time. In the meantime I'd like to try'n get the most out of my Vox, specifically by changing the bridge (as suggested) & setting up a spare 6 string neck.

Firstly, the bridge. Although I've bought a cast aluminium Bigbsy bridge, would it work just as well if I kept the old wooden base & just sat the compensated aluminium part on top? Or, is it better to have something that's all metal? I gather all the tone-sucking is being done by the roller saddles, along with a weird bit of cloth that's been under there since I got the guitar.

Secondly, I've thought against setting up the spare neck. The nut is narrower than my Jazzmaster, it'd need money spent on getting someone with the skills to drill it properly & then there'd be the issue of modifying the 12 string neck pocket. Too much bother! I actually love the fat width of the 12 string neck, when it only has 6 strings. I have clumsy fingers so the space is actually appreciated. Besides, I could make some decent money on that neck. I've spotted a couple of Ultrasonic & Cheetah projects selling on eBay & Reverb lately.

I'm waiting on some new strings but in the meantime have started to string it up as a 6 in line headstock...


Can anyone tell me if this is likely to damage the neck? Maybe twist it a little? I set it up like thist purely for aesthetic reasons & when I've done this before I've had it in a 2 x 3 configuration, like in this picture. It always looked a bit awkward. The 6 in line looks much better. I also have some neat little black, 8mm plugs for the spare holes.

The best case scenario, after a fair amount of soul searching, is to keep the Vox & buy the Guild too. Fuck it! After playing around with the fuzz & treble boost on the Vox I'd be a fool to sell it. It's fantastic!

Lastly, and this is more of an irritating observation. The vibrato works way more like a Jazzmaster vibrato than a Bigsby (which it's clearly modelled on). I've had issues with the Bigsby on my Telecaster, namely it lacking response & being on the subtle side. This is spot on, has a pretty wide pitch range & weirdly seems to stay in tune when there's just 6 strings! Why can't the Bigsby on my Tele be like that? Bizarre!

[b bender]

I have a Vox Challenger that was left for a few years with missing strings and it caused a neck twist, since I have left it alone strung properly it has lessened but its still there
soo I would use the 2X3 version as Vox(es) may not like the twisted string pull and if you left all the tuners in it wouldn't look too bad ...............

[PorkyPrimeCut]

I think I might just loosen the strings when I'm not using it.

I guess it's the pull of the heavier E,A and D strings that's the concern. If you look at the remaining 3 lighter strings they're almost straight on.

I forgot about the nose-dive problems I had with this guitar, when all 12 tuners + ferrules are in place. Having only 6 there seems to balance things out well.

[PorkyPrimeCut]

The bridge arrived and it's definitely made a difference. I've not plugged it in yet as we're entertaining guests but unplugged it's really brightened up & there's far less vibration going on. There's still something in the body (maybe a wire that's resting against something or two metal components touching) causing a tiny bit of occasional buzz but hopefully I can handle it & not let my inner OCD take control. If that happens I'll probably have the thing in bits & never manage to get it back together properly again! Ha!!

Anyway, it looks the part (even though it might be a copy). The bridge could do with a little bit of a buff up but I'm really not bothered at all. It actually suits the old body, being a bit tarnished. The main thing is that the guitar plays well. The slightly odd string spacing, due to it being a 12 string, is strange to look at but doesn't affect the performance at all. Should I slot the bridge? The strings seem to stay in place OK but that's from reasonably light strumming. It's not really the kind of guitar you hammer...



Also, I've inserted plugs into the extra holes. It's funny how seeing it like this kids me into thinking it's an actual 6-string. There's definitely some kind of psychology at play there. I feel much more comfortable with it now. The wider neck suits my clumsy hands & the only thing that might be a bit dodgy is the angle the low E is at after the nut. I might have to file the groove so it's rounded more on the headstock side, otherwise it could snap the string...


...I left one plug out so you can see how it'd normally look...

The whole guitar needed a new set up, something I'm not brilliant at doing. I loosened the truss rod a little, lowered the bridge pickup & raised the new bridge which was a little lower than the stock one. I'm kicking myself for not checking the post alignment though. As this is narrower I can't drop the compensated bar onto the old wooden base. Again, no big deal but it'd have been nice to get an idea how it'd sound with a combined aluminium & wood bridge.

Happy days though. This guy's staying with me for the time being....



I'm still obsessed with that Guild Starfire so, who knows, if work picks up once I'm back from my holiday I might have to go crazy, if it's still for sale, that is.

[mgeek]

Cool! Looking good!

I would slot the bridge, yeah- the aluminium is not super hard, I started mine off with a hacksaw and shaped them by running a guitar string through the hole a few times.

Oh- re: setting up the bridge, if you are going to use the trem, you want to string it to tension, then angle the top bit back. That way when you depress the trem, the bridge will rock forward, then move back with the strings. Tuning should be pretty good if you just go for light vibrato etc

[PorkyPrimeCut]

Cool! Looking good!

I would slot the bridge, yeah- the aluminium is not super hard, I started mine off with a hacksaw and shaped them by running a guitar string through the hole a few times.

OK, that's how I was thinking I'd go about it as I don't have set of needle files.

Oh- re: setting up the bridge, if you are going to use the trem, you want to string it to tension, then angle the top bit back. That way when you depress the trem, the bridge will rock forward, then move back with the strings. Tuning should be pretty good if you just go for light vibrato etc

Sorry, I don't quite follow part of this. When you say "angle the top bit" do you mean "straighten the compensated bar"? When I first installed it & tuned up I realised that the bar was leaning pretty far forward. Even though some forums suggested this was normal I tried to re-tune/re-set the thing up & this time ensured that the bridge stayed straight. It worked out fine & now sits how I'd hoped it would.

It's funny, with even light but regular use the vibrato knocks this thing out of tune. Only slightly but enough to have to spend 10-20 seconds adjusting the tuners. I've read that these guitars are notorious for it & also remember seeing Anton Newcombe on a couple of occasions standing there, tuning up between songs & even saying "Sorry, these old vintage guitars need constant re-tuning" or words to that effect.
I was reading up on ways of making them more stable yesterday & found an article where they were interviewing Anton about his gear. He said that the Vox guitars they used stayed in tune far better than other Gibsons & Guilds!? Er, what? I can't see it myself.

I'm almost done tinkering but am already curious about other, better quality bridges, namely the Compton & Tru-Arc Serpentune.