Is the love affair over? No! Modding the Ultrasonic....

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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PorkyPrimeCut
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Is the love affair over? No! Modding the Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:47 am

This is by no means definite. I haven't played it (12 string Vox Ultrasonic) in ages & could quite easily get back into it again, the trouble is, it's a very fiddly guitar. For a start, it's an old 12 string that's notorious for going out of tune. Whoever decided to add a vibrato tailpiece must've been (and probably was) on very strong drugs. If I give it one wiggle I spend the next minute re-tuning it.
Then there's the electronics which sound utterly amazing! I still think the distortion & treble boost together are close to my favourite sound, ever. But it all comes with a cost. The switches are a bit clicky & using the repeater or palm wah causes volume drop. The palm wah is a bit daft anyway, it was clearly an idea that never caught on which is a shame because, with the distortion & boost, it's a pretty cool effect.
Ages ago I bought a 6 string neck for it (all original but never drilled) that might still get sorted out, making it a slightly simpler guitar, but in all honesty I get the feeling I might always have these niggles. It sounds crap unplugged, probably because of all the electronics inside the very thin body. I long for a hollow-bodied guitar that I can pick up & enjoy unplugged as much as plugged in.
Also, I have a Ruess Repeater Fuzz pedal which gets very, very close to the guitars tone, plus some etched PCBs of the full circuit that Ben (theworkoffire) helped me out with a while back. I might still get them in a working unit.

So, here I am. I guess what I'm wondering now is, what can I get for the guitar? It's all original, in very good condition & comes with a case & candy (strap, cable, tools & wallet). The neck alone may well fetch £150+ as it's stupidly rare.
I'd want something vintage (that'll hold it's value) and hollow or semi-hollow. My heart says keep the Vox & save for something else but my head says I'll just spend the money on other, more important stuff.

Ideally I'm thinking of something by Guild as I've read so much good stuff about the consistent build quality but I could be persuaded by Gretsch, Gibson, maybe even Hagstrom. I also need to avoid buying from the US. Import tax/duty/handling fees these days will cost a fortune, thanks to the crap value of the pound.

Suggestions?
Last edited by PorkyPrimeCut on Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by FrankRay » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:56 am

I once owned a teardrop, having wanted one for years. I sold it after realising that it was crap, basically, so I sympathise. If it was me, I'd buy a Gretsch Country Gentleman (because of Mark Hollis) or a Guild Starfire (because a friend had one and it's amazing). His was a single cut de armond pick-upped one, which was possibly made by the same people that had made them originally, but frankly I wasn't concentrating when he told me the back story.
Obviously not suggesting that you could afford the Gretsch, but they are very classy.

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:15 am

FrankRay wrote:I once owned a teardrop, having wanted one for years. I sold it after realising that it was crap, basically, so I sympathise. If it was me, I'd buy a Gretsch Country Gentleman (because of Mark Hollis) or a Guild Starfire (because a friend had one and it's amazing). His was a single cut de armond pick-upped one, which was possibly made by the same people that had made them originally, but frankly I wasn't concentrating when he told me the back story.
Obviously not suggesting that you could afford the Gretsch, but they are very classy.
I just spotted a '68 Guild Starfire III on eBay, in the UK too. If you squint you'd almost think it was the Vox. Ha!! It looks to be nicely worn in so I wouldn't worry about scratching it & the price is possibly bang on. The only downside is it doesn't have the Dynasonic pickups which I really like the sound of.

I won't make any rushed decisions here but it's good to know there are deals to be had, this side of the pond. Saying that, it's probably not even a good deal. I have no idea about the value of these old Guilds.

And, yeah, an old Country Gent or Tennessean would be dandy. Probably a bit too pricey though.
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by Fenderguy » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:30 am

The Guild mini-humbuckers from the `60 are maybe my favorite pickups ever. I`ve sold/traded lots of guitars, but one of my biggest regrets is getting rid of my old SF 4. It sounded amazing!

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:40 am

Fenderguy wrote:The Guild mini-humbuckers from the `60 are maybe my favorite pickups ever. I`ve sold/traded lots of guitars, but one of my biggest regrets is getting rid of my old SF 4. It sounded amazing!
That's good to know. I don't really know anything about them.
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by mgeek » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:13 am

PorkyPrimeCut wrote: It sounds crap unplugged, probably because of all the electronics inside the very thin body. I long for a hollow-bodied guitar that I can pick up & enjoy unplugged as much as plugged in.
If it has the original bridge, I can't say enough bad things about those...the roller saddles suck ALL the tone before the vibrations even get close to hitting the body. I replaced the one on my '64 Phantom with a modded Jazzmaster bridge, which looks close but sounds a billion times better. If I hadn't figured that out, I would have definitely toyed with getting rid of the guitar as a dead sounding POS.

That aside, if you were to move it on, a 60s Hofner Verithin would 100% cover what you want in terms of sounding great plugged and unplugged. I snagged one for cheap last year and it's been a life-changing guitar.

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:21 am

mgeek wrote: If it has the original bridge, I can't say enough bad things about those...the roller saddles suck ALL the tone before the vibrations even get close to hitting the body. I replaced the one on my '64 Phantom with a modded Jazzmaster bridge, which looks close but sounds a billion times better. If I hadn't figured that out, I would have definitely toyed with getting rid of the guitar as a dead sounding POS.
Interesting. I'd be willing to try a bridge swap but still get the feeling it'd sound duff due to all that space inside being taken up by circuitry. There's a hell of a lot of it - big, old clunky PCBs sandwiched together.
mgeek wrote: That aside, if you were to move it on, a 60s Hofner Verithin would 100% cover what you want in terms of sounding great plugged and unplugged. I snagged one for cheap last year and it's been a life-changing guitar.
Funny you should say that. A good friend in Leeds has an old Verithin (pictured in this thread) - basically their take on the similar Vox models. It sounds way better than mine unplugged but has different characteristics when plugged in, generally more growly & less waspy/fuzzy than mine. It's a lovely guitar! Good shout on Hofner. I'll add it to the list of possibilities.
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by mgeek » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:52 am

PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Funny you should say that. A good friend in Leeds has an old Verithin (pictured in this thread) - basically their take on the similar Vox models. It sounds way better than mine unplugged but has different characteristics when plugged in, generally more growly & less waspy/fuzzy than mine. It's a lovely guitar! Good shout on Hofner. I'll add it to the list of possibilities.
The one at the top of the thread is a similar era one to mine, 64/65, but mine has the UK issue Selmer Bigsby, which came with an aluminium compensated bridge...which I sort of feel are THE best for getting the most out of a semi, having played around with a few options. Sounds incredible.

Hadn't realised there was an 'effects' version of the Veri...madness! Mine is the regular version.

btw, my main niche interest is old UK guitars- Burns, Weill, Wem, Vox etc and I have to say the Hofner blows away all of them, probably cos they'd been making guitars since the 1880s and had (and still have) incredible stocks of seasoned wood.

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:37 am

mgeek wrote: Hadn't realised there was an 'effects' version of the Veri...madness! Mine is the regular version.
There are several. I gather, back then, you could actually make custom orders & pick the circuit you wanted. Typical of the Germans really.
Somewhere online* there's a really good website that lists loads of Verithins, with & without effects.
mgeek wrote: btw, my main niche interest is old UK guitars- Burns, Weill, Wem, Vox etc and I have to say the Hofner blows away all of them, probably cos they'd been making guitars since the 1880s and had (and still have) incredible stocks of seasoned wood.
Yeah, I doubt they'll (Germany in general, not just Hofner) ever run out of good seasoned wood either, so long as they don't export too much of it to China.
As I'm moving there in the not too distant future it may be worth looking into old guitar shops & private sellers. Avoiding eBay/PayPal fees would be another bonus.

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:50 pm

mgeek wrote: The one at the top of the thread is a similar era one to mine, 64/65, but mine has the UK issue Selmer Bigsby, which came with an aluminium compensated bridge...which I sort of feel are THE best for getting the most out of a semi, having played around with a few options. Sounds incredible...
This comment got me thinking & I can't get the idea out of my head now, so I'm back. I think I might try out one of these bridges. Any chance you can post a pic or link to your bridge? I've looked at Gretsch ones that look the part. I know the rollers are supposed to aid the tremolo but, frankly, I think I'm going to remove the arm anyway. Re-tuning every time I use it is soul destroying.

I also think I need to drill the 6 string neck & see if it works out. The neck pocket will be a little roomy around the edges as it was cut for the wider neck (I discussed this in length, years ago, on this forum) but I don't really have anything to lose. I think I'm done with 12-string electrics, for now.
I'm also thinking, a little more radically, about removing the Palm Wah, at least the part that's visible. It's just a hindrance. Ideally I'd take the whole circuit out as it's been re-wired at least once already so I won't be knocking off any more value. I'll obviously keep anything I remove, in case I do decide to sell.

I've also been looking at other Guild options & the T100 looks interesting. Very similar to the Starfire III but with different pickups. It's cheaper too. Anyone know much about them?
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by shadowplay » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:31 pm

If I was in your shoes I wouldn't sell, I'd get it set up for six strings with a better bridge. Reading between the lines all the years it had the impression that you were always slightly disappointed you settled for a 12 string and since this guitar is something of a totem for you I'd get it set up with the six sting neck and give it a last chance.

However, I've just read about the neck fit issue, so if this was me I'd sell it and buy a six string Cheetah or Ultrasonic.

However you'd probably play a Guild or Gretsch more and IMO more of the money you spend on these goes in actual guitar performance but you don't seem to have an excess of guitars and if I were you I'd just start gently saving for one, if there's the slightest chance you'd regret a sale.

Having said that if you were to sell the Vox and wanted a double cut Gretsch you could probably swap it for a Gretsch Viking or similar. Andy Baxter seems to sella few Vox's and he's got a natural Viking in at the moment and some Guild's, could be worth trying to trade.

Depends how you are wired, I enjoy saving up and I like the delayed gratification, so if you can make a financial case for it I'd save for the other guitar but (speaking personally as a serial worrier) only if it was a free and easy purchase and not one that was impinging on important finances (in my case paying of mortgages and planning for retirement, pension and kids Uni) and long term commitments etc.

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:26 am

shadowplay wrote:If I was in your shoes I wouldn't sell, I'd get it set up for six strings with a better bridge. Reading between the lines all the years it had the impression that you were always slightly disappointed you settled for a 12 string and since this guitar is something of a totem for you I'd get it set up with the six sting neck and give it a last chance.

However, I've just read about the neck fit issue, so if this was me I'd sell it and buy a six string Cheetah or Ultrasonic.

However you'd probably play a Guild or Gretsch more and IMO more of the money you spend on these goes in actual guitar performance but you don't seem to have an excess of guitars and if I were you I'd just start gently saving for one, if there's the slightest chance you'd regret a sale.

Having said that if you were to sell the Vox and wanted a double cut Gretsch you could probably swap it for a Gretsch Viking or similar. Andy Baxter seems to sella few Vox's and he's got a natural Viking in at the moment and some Guild's, could be worth trying to trade.

Depends how you are wired, I enjoy saving up and I like the delayed gratification, so if you can make a financial case for it I'd save for the other guitar but (speaking personally as a serial worrier) only if it was a free and easy purchase and not one that was impinging on important finances (in my case paying of mortgages and planning for retirement, pension and kids Uni) and long term commitments etc.

D
Wow! Thanks for that link, David. How did I not know about this guy? He's in London too!

I'm immediately seeing 2 things. Firstly, the Ultrasonic he sold went for a grand more than I thought they were worth (although he could have accepted a lower offer, I suppose). Secondly, there's a '63 Guild Starfire II that ticks all the boxes! Dearmond Dynasonics, curved (not stepped pickguard), cherry red, sounds fantastic (the last part of the soundclip! Zoiks!). It looks just like the one Despot used to have. Pity about the body repair & missing OHSC but it's a good starting point to gauge what I can get in a possible trade.

I need to go for a run & think things through!!
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by shadowplay » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:34 am

Andy used to be In the same Scrutton street basement as Andy Weatherall before they were all thrown out and he plays bass on a lot of his stuff and has quite a distinctive style. The way I understood it was that that he had so many contacts that he generally ran the shop as a word of mouth thing.

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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by Ceylon » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:45 am

I personally wouldn't. Partly because I've gathered over the years here that you have or have had some sort of bond with this guitar and partly because it's quite an unusual guitar. As Shadowplay says it might be worth saving up for a bit to be able to both keep this and get something more useful. I've sold guitars that could be more easily replaced and that I haven't had for very long and still find myself missing them from time to time.

But I might be biased, since I would absolutely love an Ultrasonic XII. I haven't come across anything quite like them.
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Re: Is the love affair over? Might sell my Ultrasonic....

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:47 am

The fact he's in London & sells/trades a lot of vintage hollow bodies makes a huge difference (so long as he doesn't mark gear up like VintageAndRare, which is entirely possible. He's a trader after all). Dodging import tax/duty/etc... and postage is a huge plus! Plus, I'd actually get to try before I buy, which is a bizarre rarity for me.
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