OffsetGuitars.com

Ceylon wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:47 pm

Unicorn Warrior wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 7:32 pm

It kind of sucks really. The stigma of China will loom for a long time no matter how good they might be. But, they’ll probably just be very hit and miss. Wonder why they don’t move their mid level branch to Mexico like Fender? ….for some reason, I feel like the Mexican made instruments get much more respect. Overall,
Fenders Mexico are better and more consistent, even if it’s just marginally nowadays. Or possibly in my head?….either way. That’s my point

Do this, but instead of calling it Epiphone Custom shop, call it Gibson Mexico

Fender Mexico wasn't all that great to start with and not actually considered all that good until 10-15 years ago. When I started playing and going on forums people were still pretty cold on them. Now both the instruments and their reputation got better. Setting up a new factory there would be a massive investment in terms of time and money for Gibson and it might take a while before production does get good, and until at least then they'd be an unknown factor in peoples' eyes.

China Epiphones are made in China, which comes with an auto-stigma, but people who know them also know they're solid guitars. Changing production now erases all progress made in favour of re-starting a brand that initially looks better on paper but won't practically get as good for a while.

To be fair, fenders Mexican instruments, at that time, were still better than most anything coming out of squire China. The same can be said for today in my opinion. Quality has improved for both China and Mexico, but Mexico quality is still more consistent.

I don’t know if that automatically translates to Mexico making better guitars, but I think the made in China stigma would be worth avoiding if charging $1500 for the new stuff.

Anything epiphone I’ve had in my hands produced after 2020, the start of the ibg line, has been fantastic.
My literal only gripe is that the finishes are still on the thicker side.
But, the 2022 sg special I had was sticky as could be, on the reverse side of that coin, and made in the USA.
As much as I REALLY want a fb1, I just paid a smidge more for one of the new sg standards (also green, for the record) and it is positively delightful.
My only real reason for not taking the plunge thus far is I have too much stuff.
I need to seek a few bits before I acquire another.

Unicorn Warrior wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 7:55 am

Fender Mexico wasn't all that great to start with and not actually considered all that good until 10-15 years ago. When I started playing and going on forums people were still pretty cold on them. Now both the instruments and their reputation got better. Setting up a new factory there would be a massive investment in terms of time and money for Gibson and it might take a while before production does get good, and until at least then they'd be an unknown factor in peoples' eyes.

China Epiphones are made in China, which comes with an auto-stigma, but people who know them also know they're solid guitars. Changing production now erases all progress made in favour of re-starting a brand that initially looks better on paper but won't practically get as good for a while.

To be fair, fenders Mexican instruments, at that time, were still better than most anything coming out of squire China. The same can be said for today in my opinion. Quality has improved for both China and Mexico, but Mexico quality is still more consistent.

I don’t know if that automatically translates to Mexico making better guitars, but I think the made in China stigma would be worth avoiding if charging $1500 for the new stuff.
[/quote]

I think the quality is whatever they make it be- the early Mexican made Fender stuff was awful because Fender didn't want it to be very good.

These modern factories, Gibson says they want the Epiphones to be this then it becomes that.

Ceylon wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:47 pm

Fender Mexico wasn't all that great to start with and not actually considered all that good until 10-15 years ago. When I started playing and going on forums people were still pretty cold on them. Now both the instruments and their reputation got better. Setting up a new factory there would be a massive investment in terms of time and money for Gibson and it might take a while before production does get good, and until at least then they'd be an unknown factor in peoples' eyes.

In my experience there's a reason for that and for once the stigma loosely matches experience, mine at least. Older Fender Mexico instruments that I played were often pretty uninspired and/or felt a bit off on the neck, but latter ones (post-2010) I've owned a few, including a purple/pink Mustang 90 (that thing was amazing but alas, like all Mustangs I've had it just ended up not getting played, third in a row) and my current second electric, the Meteora, which is overall good although the fretwork could have been better (mostly remedied now) and the selector switch is having problems selecting the neck pickup, but selector switches can and do go at random on any guitar so I can excuse that. One of the best sounding Fenders I've ever played though, and nice to see 22 frets on a 25.5" scale neck.

crazyzeke wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:53 am

Does anyone know what the deal is with Trogly? From what's been said here and there on the internet it's inferred he's a rich kid with unlimited budget to buy and hoard guitars but I don't watch his channel/interact with him enough to know and I'm kinda curious.

I mean, the guy is married with 3 children, and has spoken often about working at a grocery store for years to save up enough to buy his first spotlight special and then selling them to buy his first house, and lives in a (presumably) less expensive part of the states in rural Ohio. So I don't think "rich kid" is the term I'd use. But yeah, he's been flipping for a while before becoming a 'dealer' and has a loyal YT following so gets income from sponsors, affiliate links and clicks etc.

crazyzeke wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:31 pm

In my experience there's a reason for that and for once the stigma loosely matches experience, mine at least. Older Fender Mexico instruments that I played were often pretty uninspired and/or felt a bit off on the neck, but latter ones (post-2010) I've owned a few, including a purple/pink Mustang 90 (that thing was amazing but alas, like all Mustangs I've had it just ended up not getting played, third in a row) and my current second electric, the Meteora, which is overall good although the fretwork could have been better (mostly remedied now) and the selector switch is having problems selecting the neck pickup, but selector switches can and do go at random on any guitar so I can excuse that. One of the best sounding Fenders I've ever played though, and nice to see 22 frets on a 25.5" scale neck.

I'd agree. When I was looking far and wide for a good, affordable Stratocaster 15-16 or so years ago I wrote off Fender Mexico all together after trying every example I could get my hands on. Placebo? Maybe. But these days I own and love a mostly stock Vintera Jaguar, and there's no comparison between Fender Mexico then and now, in my admittedly limited experience.

RE: Quality

I think that the quality of any factory output is directly related to the investment in and experience of the employees, especially when it comes to wiring and fretwork.. Fender Mexico has been investing in the staff and factory and its paying off. I suspect that Epi china, or the factory china that makes Epi's has developed some longer term and experienced staff in the same way.

I am not sure What the PRS SE factory and quality was 2 years ago or before that since i wasn't paying attention but whatever happened there - they are putting out very very high quality guitars right now. And we are all familiar with what happened when Fender laid off a bunch of their production staff while producing a new model line.

Interesting to hear these thoughts on the old Fender Mexico. BACK IN MY DAY, going for a Mexican Fender was the way to get a pretty damn good instrument for $2-300. I've owned several myself, and still have a P-Bass from the 90s that needs absolutely nothing. My brother has a Mexi strat from that era as well that is just a lovely instrument.

Now, the recent Squiers are probably even better! It's insane how good they truly are. But I've never felt like those southern Fenders were anything but good, solid instruments. Maybe I'm easy to please.

When I worked for Musician's Friend Private Reserve we sold a few guitars to him. That's actually how I found out about him. I don't find the channel very interesting. He did give us high marks for our pack job though, lol.

Ceylon wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:42 pm

I'd agree. When I was looking far and wide for a good, affordable Stratocaster 15-16 or so years ago I wrote off Fender Mexico all together after trying every example I could get my hands on. Placebo? Maybe. But these days I own and love a mostly stock Vintera Jaguar, and there's no comparison between Fender Mexico then and now, in my admittedly limited experience.

Good shout, the few Vintera Jags I've laid my hands on have been decent, so there's truth in Fender Mexico being a lot better relatively now than before. Fender Japan are still the kings in terms of price to quality (and it's amazing to see the '03-'04 CIJ Jag I call my #1 that I paid £360 for could go for £1,200+ these days, stock at least) but they make a good alternative.

---

A lot of the modern Squiers regardless of region can be stunning guitars too, in terms of price to quality. My Squier Bullet Mustang HH was a great little instrument right out of the factory, just a string change plus action/intonation (might have shimmed the neck, not sure) and I actually think it was better stock than when I stuck a super high gain Invader in the bridge. I still have the original bridge humbucker somewhere just in case I need one as it was a solid sounding mid-output thing. The main problem was as a low-end model there was accelerated wear on the screws and such - it looked like it had had 5-10 years hard gigging after barely a year.

I have a vintera jag. The ibg epiphones are easily on par with it, fit, finish and quality wise.
And those normal ibg epis are 650 or less, or had been up until meow.

Chippertheripper wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:22 am

I have a vintera jag. The ibg epiphones are easily on par with it, fit, finish and quality wise.
And those normal ibg epis are 650 or less, or had been up until meow.

Sorry if I missed this, but what does IBG stand for?

MKR wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:00 pm

Sorry if I missed this, but what does IBG stand for?

Inspired by Gibson.

Larry Mal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:20 pm

Inspired by Gibson.

Ah. right.

This topic is interesting timing as just Sunday I picked up a used 2013 Epiphone casino for $600. $250 less than what I sold a Gretsch electromatic for a couple days prior.

I’m sure the $2000 epiphones are cool,, but my $600 one is also pretty amazing. Electronics all holding up fine and plays with impeccable low action.