Advice RE: Tapewound Bass Strings

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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JackFawkes
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Re: Advice RE: Tapewound Bass Strings

Post by JackFawkes » Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:08 pm

Sooo... the extra noise you're hearing when playing with tapewounds?
It's not coming from the strings or the bass... it's coming from you, the big weird-shaped saltwater antenna that's playing the bass. When you touch metal strings, your noise goes to ground.

If there's tape preventing you from reaching ground through the instrument, you have three options (in decreasing order of effectiveness) :
1. Find another way to connect yourself to ground... e.g. change your playing technique to rest your hand on a grounded piece of metal on the bass, or possibly an ESD strap like GreenKnee posted (but that feels like it could be dicey to me :unsure: )
2. Shield the interior cavities of your instrument... that will prevent the pickups from "hearing" most of the buzz that you're emitting.
3. Use "noiseless" pickups... most noiseless pickups are internally shielded or otherwise designed to ignore most of the buzz in their general vicinity.
(Note: the extra noise you're hearing when using tapewounds versus normal strings is buzz, not 50/60Hz hum)

Jack

P.S.: I'm one of those people who usually doesn't bother to shield their guitars/basses; but tapewound strings are literally the one use-case where I feel shielding is essential and recommend it highly.

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sessylU
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Re: Advice RE: Tapewound Bass Strings

Post by sessylU » Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:42 am

JackFawkes wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:08 pm
Sooo... the extra noise you're hearing when playing with tapewounds?
It's not coming from the strings or the bass... it's coming from you, the big weird-shaped saltwater antenna that's playing the bass. When you touch metal strings, your noise goes to ground.
I don't think I've heard of this phenomena before.

OP: this is easy to test. Plug your bass in, set it down and walk away from it. Does the noise persist or go away?
a total idiot jackass

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JackFawkes
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Re: Advice RE: Tapewound Bass Strings

Post by JackFawkes » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:46 pm

sessylU wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:42 am
OP: this is easy to test. Plug your bass in, set it down and walk away from it. Does the noise persist or go away?
That's not a great test. Even if you walk away, the air is still full of the same buzzy frequencies that our bodies conduct and reflect.

Did you ever have an old over-the-air TV antenna? Did you notice that often you could often get better reception just by standing near, and especially by touching the antenna? The human body is both conductive and capacitive; so the extremely over-simplified explanation is that when you touched that old TV antenna, you became part of it, making it bigger.

When you play your instrument and are not grounded through the strings; you're an additional weird-shaped, noisy sort-of-antenna near the pickups.
When you are grounded through the strings; you're an additional weird-shaped, now-grounded shield near the pickups.

Here, I made a quick video to demonstrate: https://imgur.com/a/sqTx4RG
(make sure you click the audio on)
Instrument cable into little practice amp. Even with my cellphone's crappy microphone off-axis from the speakers you can hear the buzz gets louder when my hand is near the tip. And when I touch the sleeve (ground) most of the buzz goes away, for I become a big weird-shaped shield near the tip.

Jack

P.S.: I love distortion pedals (especially Muffs) but as we all know, they massively amplify any extraneous noise that our pickups pick up...

So one of my pandemic projects in 2020 was testing different shielding methods with a pickup mounted in a little wooden box (well, there were three identical boxes throughout the experiment)... I tried copper tape, aluminum foil, MG Chemicals carbon spray paint, and MG Chemicals nickel spray paint... and for reducing buzz around a guitar pickup, all of them worked about equally well!

But what I found once I moved my experiment to a couple bottom of the barrel, $60 on Craigslist, Strat-style guitars was that shielded or not, the player touching grounded strings reduced buzz even more than any of the shielding methods... so now I don't bother to shield guitars anymore :fp: ...unless the player can't be added to the ground through the stings ;)

Consider this all anecdotal, I'm not an electrical or RF engineer, so maybe I'm misinterpreting the data. My experiments were only somewhat controlled, I didn't have an isolated laboratory to consistently repeat the exact frequencies that were in the air with each test; but all of the results were extremely consistent, in my apartment, for me. It's quite possible that shielding could be more effective than grounding the player through the strings in other environments.
(If I was smart, I would have video recorded every step and made a YouTube series out of it Jim Lill style... but I'm not smart)

tl;dr - If the player is isolated from the ground via tapewound strings, shielding the instrument will help, but not as much as adding the player to the ground would. Even with shielding, if you still get more buzz than you can stand, try different pickups; some pickups (especially "noiseless" ones) are a little less sensitive to buzz than others (and no, I'm not talking about humbuckers per se, 50/60Hz hum is a different noise than buzz).

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Dave
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Re: Advice RE: Tapewound Bass Strings

Post by Dave » Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:44 am

The debate continues yet the problem is solved, courtesy of the same genius who suggested wiring my pickups in series, Zork. Zork knows fucking everything about my little old Geddy Lee bass and from now on I think I’m just going to PM him directly when I wonder about further improvements. :D :D

Image
"I'm all metric and loving every inch of it"
-Orang Goreng

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Zork
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Re: Advice RE: Tapewound Bass Strings

Post by Zork » Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:27 am

Dave wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:44 am
The debate continues yet the problem is solved, courtesy of the same genius who suggested wiring my pickups in series, Zork. Zork knows fucking everything about my little old Geddy Lee bass and from now on I think I’m just going to PM him directly when I wonder about further improvements. :D :D

Image
:D :D :D

That bass looks very cool!

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