Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by Jaguar018 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:21 am

Well the Jaguar headstocks are pretty much the same. :P

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by tade » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:17 am

Jaguar018 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:47 am
I don't like Warmoth necks because of their Gibson-style blocks. For Fender B&B necks I just can't abide.
I agree with that even if Fender does the same thing now.

Which company makes B&B necks with the right size and number of blocks?

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by Deed_Poll » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:52 pm

Warmoth make an excellent product, but as with all things - especially where long lists of options are involved - it's very important to know what you want.

The things I might criticise would all be options, and they would be a matter of taste. These would include:

* The 10"-16" fretboard radius is too flat for me, and isn't an optimal conic section for the relative taper of the fretboard surface

* Their double truss rod is too heavy for me and can result in slightly sterile, lifeless sounding guitars in my experience

* The transitions (headstock and heel) on their Warmoth Pro Construction necks are perhaps a little 'clumsy', perhaps as a result of being generalised for many headstock shapes

* Again, on the 'Pro' necks, the fretboards are rather thick

* It does irritate me that they charge extra for "custom" back profiles which are no more or less custom than their "standard" back profiles.

The thing is, knowing what I do and don't like means I could very easily order a fantastic neck from Warmoth that I would be very satisfied with. Of course, they are a business and will want to funnel custom towards the higher margin items and costlier options - but that's our responsibility as consumers, not theirs.

They do offer an incredible array of options for woods, their finishing is consistently excellent (for the kind of finish it is), and they represent very good value for the quality of product you get.

My advice to someone wanting a neck for a Fender style guitar (or at least, who is very satisfied with the way Fender necks feel and sound) is to stick to their Total Vintage or Vintage Modern construction, as far as their preferred options will allow. I have just had the best final results with these in feel, balance and musicality - your mileage may vary. I find with the Total Vintage necks in particular, the neck is more flexible and communicates more with the playing hand.

Let's say I'm the new CEO of Warmoth and I want to sort things out from the player's point of view.

I'm nitpicking here, but I would update the feel a little. The character of the core product line is a bit '90s in flavour - skinny U-shaped standard profile with little taper? Let's chunk that up a bit, bring it towards C territory and introduce a little more taper. Lose the emphasis on "the stiffest, most stable neck" (again, I find it a bit outdated). I'd want to be rid of the double rod, at least the way they have it.

I would try and consolidate several lines into one - this would hopefully streamline available options with a single menu (It's frustrating to discover you can't have the binding you want without a truss rod design you don't, or similar). Try to use some parametrics and clever web design to allow simultaneously for greater customisation (pickups and control positions, for instance) and better compatibility with official and aftermarket parts (Jazzmaster pickguards, anyone?) and other Warmoth products.

A "Dressing Room"-style builder would also increase their custom no end, with a real-time options cost calculator. CEO me would be wanting an "add to basket and buy now" option hovering dangerously at all times. In combination with the above parametrics, it could give a flag if your 24-fret neck is going to interfere with your Jazzmaster neck pickup position. The advantage of this is that it could update a pickguard and body simultaneously - instead of the slightly clunky system they currently operate.

I'm nitpicking, though. They do so much right that it's hard to fault them on matters of taste or being a little outdated.

Having said all that, I'm very glad I've gone down the route of making my own necks from scratch. Though it has been a hell of a lot of work, I am very satisfied with the control I now have over the exact surfaces and transitions, processes etc. involved.
Last edited by Deed_Poll on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by StevenO » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:00 pm

I've never liked a Warmoth product I've laid my hands on, but I have loved every Guitar Mill or Musikraft product I've owned (I own two Musikraft necks and they have great customer service as well).

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by hamletpowpowpow » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:30 pm

This is a super helpful, thorough, and well thought-out response. Thank you!
Deed_Poll wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:52 pm
Warmoth make an excellent product, but as with all things - especially where long lists of options are involved - it's very important to know what you want.

The things I might criticise would all be options, and they would be a matter of taste. These would include:

* The 10"-16" fretboard radius is too flat for me, and isn't an optimal conic section for the relative taper of the fretboard surface

* Their double truss rod is too heavy for me and can result in slightly sterile, lifeless sounding guitars in my experience

* The transitions (headstock and heel) on their Warmoth Pro Construction necks are perhaps a little 'clumsy', perhaps as a result of being generalised for many headstock shapes

* Again, on the 'Pro' necks, the fretboards are rather thick

* It does irritate me that they charge extra for "custom" back profiles which are no more or less custom than their "standard" back profiles.

The thing is, knowing what I do and don't like means I could very easily order a fantastic neck from Warmoth that I would be very satisfied with. Of course, they are a business and will want to funnel custom towards the higher margin items and costlier options - but that's our responsibility as consumers, not theirs.

They do offer an incredible array of options for woods, their finishing is consistently excellent (for the kind of finish it is), and they represent very good value for the quality of product you get.

My advice to someone wanting a neck for a Fender style guitar (or at least, who is very satisfied with the way Fender necks feel and sound) is to stick to their Total Vintage or Vintage Modern construction, as far as their preferred options will allow. I have just had the best final results with these in feel, balance and musicality - your mileage may vary. I find with the Total Vintage necks in particular, the neck is more flexible and communicates more with the playing hand.

Let's say I'm the new CEO of Warmoth and I want to sort things out from the player's point of view.

I'm nitpicking here, but I would update the feel a little. The character of the core product line is a bit '90s in flavour - skinny U-shaped standard profile with little taper? Let's chunk that up a bit, bring it towards C territory and introduce a little more taper. Lose the emphasis on "the stiffest, most stable neck" (again, I find it a bit outdated). I'd want to be rid of the double rod, at least the way they have it.

I would try and consolidate several lines into one - this would hopefully streamline available options with a single menu (It's frustrating to discover you can't have the binding you want without a truss rod design you don't, or similar). Try to use some parametrics and clever web design to allow simultaneously for greater customisation (pickups and control positions, for instance) and better compatibility with official and aftermarket parts (Jazzmaster pickguards, anyone?) and other Warmoth products.

A "Dressing Room"-style builder would also increase their custom no end, with a real-time options cost calculator. CEO me would be wanting an "add to basket and buy now" option hovering dangerously at all times. In combination with the above parametrics, it could give a flag if your 24-fret neck is going to interfere with your Jazzmaster neck pickup position. The advantage of this is that it could update a pickguard and body simultaneously - instead of the slightly clunky system they currently operate.

I'm nitpicking, though. They do so much right that it's hard to fault them on matters of taste or being a little outdated.

Having said all that, I'm very glad I've gone down the route of making my own necks from scratch. Though it has been a hell of a lot of work, I am very satisfied with the control I now have over the exact surfaces and transitions, processes etc. involved.

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by hamletpowpowpow » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:52 pm

Would you mind going into detail?

Thx!
StevenO wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:00 pm
I've never liked a Warmoth product I've laid my hands on, but I have loved every Guitar Mill or Musikraft product I've owned (I own two Musikraft necks and they have great customer service as well).

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by HNB » Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:01 pm

I am getting a B&B Jazzmaster neck made by PST Guitars. Scott does great necks and will do them to what you want. (Fretboard radius, fret size and material, all sorts of wood options, neck or heel truss rod, etc.) When I have pics of progress, I will post them. Here are some of his facebook pics. Smaller builder, but a really cool guy and the necks he has made for me are EXCELLENT. Probably the nicest ones I have played.

Image

Image

Image
[Christopher]

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by StevenO » Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:27 pm

hamletpowpowpow wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:52 pm
Would you mind going into detail?

Thx!
StevenO wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:00 pm
I've never liked a Warmoth product I've laid my hands on, but I have loved every Guitar Mill or Musikraft product I've owned (I own two Musikraft necks and they have great customer service as well).
Sure! What do you need to know?

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by hamletpowpowpow » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:56 pm

Very cool, but very pricey - I'll reach out tho, what I want is way simpler than what's on his reverb, and if he's working through the quarantine, that's a bonus. Thx!
HNB wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:01 pm
I am getting a B&B Jazzmaster neck made by PST Guitars. Scott does great necks and will do them to what you want. (Fretboard radius, fret size and material, all sorts of wood options, neck or heel truss rod, etc.) When I have pics of progress, I will post them. Here are some of his facebook pics. Smaller builder, but a really cool guy and the necks he has made for me are EXCELLENT. Probably the nicest ones I have played.

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by hamletpowpowpow » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:58 pm

That's a strong opinion, I'd love to know what you didn't like about Warmoth, but what you did with GM and MK.
Thx!
StevenO wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:27 pm
hamletpowpowpow wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:52 pm
Would you mind going into detail?

Thx!
StevenO wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:00 pm
I've never liked a Warmoth product I've laid my hands on, but I have loved every Guitar Mill or Musikraft product I've owned (I own two Musikraft necks and they have great customer service as well).
Sure! What do you need to know?

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by HNB » Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:29 pm

hamletpowpowpow wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:56 pm
Very cool, but very pricey - I'll reach out tho, what I want is way simpler than what's on his reverb, and if he's working through the quarantine, that's a bonus. Thx!
He is working through the quarantine. His rates aren't a ton more than Warmoth or Guitar Mill. I didn't even price guitar mill because the wait time on their main page is so long. Warmoth you simply can't get a bound and block neck. They have block as an option, but not binding. And their necks with blocks have the fretboard overhang.

The way I look at it is you would be getting a US handmade neck with much nicer wood and components and done exactly how you want it. If you factor that in, it is a really good deal. (Fret materials, bidirectional truss rod, heel or truss access, any radius, custom neck profile, premium woods and exotic wood options, laser cut inlays, binding, etc.)

That and he is a smaller builder and I like supporting him when I can. :) He is a cool guy and has made some really nice stuff for me, so I have no complaints.
[Christopher]

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by StevenO » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:15 pm

hamletpowpowpow wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:58 pm
That's a strong opinion, I'd love to know what you didn't like about Warmoth, but what you did with GM and MK.
Thx!
StevenO wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:27 pm
hamletpowpowpow wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:52 pm
Would you mind going into detail?

Thx!

Sure! What do you need to know?
Nothing crazy... I just haven't been impressed by any parts guitar that has Warmoth parts. They have seemed to feel "dead" and not resonant. Not sure why! Whereas the other two brands, I've been blown away by a lot of the stuff. The two Musikraft necks needed no fretwork done whatsoever when I got them, and I think that's great! At the end of the day, YMMV.

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by bgalizio » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:08 am

Out of those brands I have only played Warmoth but I love them!

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by tade » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:57 am

HNB wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:29 pm

He is working through the quarantine. His rates aren't a ton more than Warmoth or Guitar Mill. I didn't even price guitar mill because the wait time on their main page is so long. Warmoth you simply can't get a bound and block neck. They have block as an option, but not binding. And their necks with blocks have the fretboard overhang.
Warmoth offers binding, but only on the modern construction option, which implies dual expanding truss rod.

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Re: Why do people prefer Musikraft/Guitar Mill necks over Warmoth?

Post by Rgand » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:01 am

For quality, Warmoth is first rate. I've found Warmoth necks to be outstanding right out of the box with little or no need for fret work. As to headstock shape, I reshape them to my liking anyway so a 'Fender correct' headstock isn't anything that I care about. If you really want a Fender headstock shape, order a Fender neck and be done with it. You can always order a paddlehead from Warmoth or someone else and cut the shape yourself.

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