How Nuts Can You Get w/ The Trem On a Staytrem?

[RoséBear]

Ordered one of these, super excited. I got the one with the plastic bushings in case I’d like the bridge not to rock. (From what I know, the best tuning stability comes from a rocking bridge?)

Anyway, I have a mastery and I’ve been using it for years and recently started noticing some annoying issues, as this guitar became my #1 (strings creaking/binding, sympathetic vibrations, etc) so i thought I’d put the staytrem on my jaguar.

I use the trem, play behind the bridge, go pretty nuts with it. Sonic Youth style, but without the screwdrivers. Does the staytrem handle all that as well as the mastery?

[ChrisDesign]

Yes. The Staytrem is rock solid. I replaced my standard bridge with the Staytrem and I’ve had perfect playing ever since. Ok, I had to shim the neck to get the setup just right, but that’s pretty standard with a jazzmaster!

[RoséBear]

Yes. The Staytrem is rock solid. I replaced my standard bridge with the Staytrem and I’ve had perfect playing ever since. Ok, I had to shim the neck to get the setup just right, but that’s pretty standard with a jazzmaster!

Sweet, bridge doesn’t drift with heavy trem use and playing behind the bridge? Also hard playing?

[ChrisDesign]

I’ve never had a problem. I play a lot of muse, and it stands up to that. Your mileage may very, but Staytrem is a great product

[adamrobertt]

They are rock solid, but so is a good Mustang bridge if set up correctly. I have an American Professional JM bridge on my JM, which is basically just a Mustang bridge with a slightly narrower saddle spacing and it's just as solid as any bridge I've had. It's really all in the setup IMO which is why these bridges are so misunderstood in the first place.

[Debaser]

I've owned a couple of Staytrems, and I always kept them floating.

IME, any wild stuff left my bridge leaning to one side of the thimble. I was using 11s roundwound at the time, and a big shim, and it would never return to Top Dead Center. I backed off the neck pitch once, still the same.

I stopped using 11s on JMs, went to 10s and just stuck with Mastery. Sold my Staytrems because I could, after making my own Tele saddle JM bridge which is more solid than the Staytrem, IME. Still won't return to TDC with heavy use, so I use AmPro nylon bushings so it has half a chance of staying put. So far, so good.

I'd rather ID the problem with Mastery before moving back to Staytrem, or just take my DIY machining to another level. Shit, I rather put a bar bridge on a JM or Jag, or look for one of those hawt looking RSD unicorn bridges

[ChrisDesign]

They are rock solid, but so is a good Mustang bridge if set up correctly. I have an American Professional JM bridge on my JM, which is basically just a Mustang bridge with a slightly narrower saddle spacing and it's just as solid as any bridge I've had. It's really all in the setup IMO which is why these bridges are so misunderstood in the first place.

How do you recommend setting the bridge up?

[adamrobertt]

They are rock solid, but so is a good Mustang bridge if set up correctly. I have an American Professional JM bridge on my JM, which is basically just a Mustang bridge with a slightly narrower saddle spacing and it's just as solid as any bridge I've had. It's really all in the setup IMO which is why these bridges are so misunderstood in the first place.

How do you recommend setting the bridge up?

Get a bridge that has a set radius, no gaps between the saddles, and no height adjustment screws. This minimizes the potential for rattling/things coming loose etc. The American Professional offset bridge by Fender is a good choice IMO if you have a 9.5'' radius neck.

Then you want to shim the neck. I use a 1 degree neck pocket shim by StewMac. This allows you to crank the bridge up while still keeping a low action. This accomplishes a few things: it increases tension on the bridge, making it more stable. It increases the break angle behind the bridge which helps keep the strings in the saddles. The increased tension also greatly improves the stability of the vibrato system.

That's really all you have to do. Once you do this and dial in your truss rod and intonation, you should end up with a very stable setup that requires minimal maintenance. I've done this on several offsets and always have good results.

[Telliot]

I'll echo the 'StayTrem is solid' sentiment. I've had one on my JM for 6 years now and absolutely I love it.

[timtam]

If a rocking bridge doesn't return to where it started with trem use, analysing the movements involved reveals that there are two likely reasons:
(1) string-saddle friction is too low, causing the strings to slide in the grooves rather than grip them to rock the bridge the full distance with trem use, as Leo intended. So with an inconsistent mix of sliding / gripping, the bridge only undergoes part of the movement distance of the strings, in either or both of the forwards/backward directions. Hence it returns to a position that is different from where it started.
(2) the bridge hits the thimble walls. The strings initially grip and start to rock the bridge forward at the start of the trem movement, but then the posts hit the front thimble walls if the trem movement is large enough. The strings are then forced to slide across the saddles instead. So the extent of forward bridge movement is less than that of the strings' movement. Then when the strings reverse direction with the trem return, there is no impediment to backward bridge post movement, so the strings re-grip the saddles and return it now by the full distance. This is likely to take the bridge beyond the position where it started.

Both problems are likely to become evident incrementally, ie a little each time with each trem use, until the bridge is way out of position. Tuning is likely disrupted.

The solution to (1) is to increase string-saddle friction, most often by increasing string downforce of the saddles. eg increasing bridge height/string break angle with a tapered neck shim, increasing string tension by going up a gauge, etc.

EDIT: Correction of earlier version ...
A potential solution to (2) may also involve raising the bridge (eg adding tapered neck shim). This should mean that the same forward/backward string movement from the trem will result in an reduced arc of movement for the bridge/bridge posts, which would reduce the likelihood that the posts will impact the thimble walls. However the exact geometry of this potential solution is less certain.

Anti-rocking nylon bushings (like in the Am Pro), while antithetical to Leo's rocking design, may lessen the extent of both problems. However theoretically, at first glance, they make problem 1 worse by encouraging string sliding; but the reduced amount of allowed post movement, and some elastic recoil in the nylon bushing, may limits its impact. They also theoretically make problem 2 worse, by creating post-thimble impact earlier in the string movement that comes with trem use. But basically the anti-rocking bushings convert the bridge towards more of a fixed-bridge design - then the strings always slide (consistent sliding is 'OK'), and the posts are always blocked from movement by the thimble walls. As such, they may be better off with a lower bridge/string break angle, to reduce saddle-string sliding friction.