Return of the Jag-Stang II

[neutralomen]

Hello again.
About a year(or more) ago, I made a long interactive thread where I was attempting to re-design the Jag-Stang to be a true hybrid between the Jaguar and Mustang.

I had a bit of time this afternoon and I made the final perfections to the proportions. Everything was a delicate balancing act, including making a series of slight tweaks to the pickguard.

My hope is to get this built. I have no idea how to pursue it but would love to find a collaborator on here.

I'm willing to commission someone who knows what he's doing to help make a body template with me. It's very important these proportions are perfectly intact, as getting to this point took a lot of work.

I hope you all enjoy the result.

*disclaimer
This is not an attempt to do a "Kurt-accurate" Jag-Stang. We all know his initial drawings are much more attractive than the production model, and I know that I'm among many people trying to fix the ugly design.

This project is in the interest of satisfying proportions combining and Mustang and a Jaguar.

Without further ado, here is the result. What do you guys think?

[Rgand]

I like it better than the standard Jagstang. You could start with a Mustang pattern set from Faction Guitars and change the body shape. It looks like all the control and pickup routs would be the same. You may be able to get Kevin to put the satandard routing on his jagstand outline if you ask.

[neutralomen]

Hello, everyone. It's been a long time, but in light of the upcoming Jag-Stang MIM reissue, I took yet another crack at my Jag-Stang redesign. In revisiting the proportions of the official Jag-Stang, I actually came to understand some of the choices they made better. It inspired Mark IX. Here it is! i'll explain why I feel it needed further revisions.



First and foremost, I took in the waist a bit. If you look at the official jag-stang, the ultra-skinny waist comes too close to the pickguard on the bass side. I used to think this was just a misguided design choice. On reflection, however, it's not that the idea in principle is bad, they just went too extreme with it.

It all comes down to volume. The Mustang is a very small, thin guitar. The jaguar body is pretty darn honkin' big. Wide waist, long butt, long horn. All current attempts to re-design the jag-stang, myself included until now, kept the waist basically unchanged from the mustang waist. Partially I think it's because Kurt's polaroid mockup was just a mashup of two photos. The other reason is a retaliation against the the official jag-stang's extreme "pinched" look.

That said, extending the horn of the mustang to be jag-like, and offsetting the butt to make it more jag-like ADDS volume. In order to keep the "mustang" part of the design under control, you must remove mass from other areas. Similar to "squash and stretch" in animation, you must maintain the overall "volume" of the guitar. Otherwise, it looks like a "bloated" mustang.

Mark XI addresses this by taking in the waist, just not as MUCH as the official jag-stang. The result is, it maintains the feel of a "small, narrow" guitar like a Mustang, just skewed, rather than "mustang PLUS a few pounds of meat." Know what I mean?

Second thing is, I further exaggerated the depressed cutaway. The Jag body has a huge horn and almost flat cutaway. Keeping the mustang cutaway the same deep scoop as a mustang, but putting a jaguar horn on the bass side kind of detracts from the "blending" of the two bodies. This more depressed cutaway makes the top of the guitar look more like a halfway point between Jag and Mustang.

I also shrank the butt a bit. It was just too big, again, looks like volume was added rather than displaced. I'm not 100% on the shape of the lower butt but it's really close. I think Mark X will be perfect.

Any thoughts and feedback would be wonderfully appreciated!

[AcrylicSuperman]

I like where this project is going.

Wanted to throw in an interesting perspective in case you further decide to revise your design. I didn't know this until I started heavily researching the prototype, but the Custom Shop didn't have either Mustang or Jaguar templates in 1993. Larry Brooks had to bring in his own Mustang, a 1969/70 Competition model, into Fender and create templates from his own guitar. In fact, if you order a custom shop Mustang to this day, it will be made from that same template. Mark Kendrick, who helped Larry create the template for the Jagstang prototype, claimed that because there was no Jaguar template, they were forced to try to accomodate with a Jazzmaster template. So the guitar ended up really being a Jazzmaster/Mustang hybrid. Thought I'd share that fun fact. You may see the Jagstang design in a slightly different light. I know I did.

[neutralomen]

Very interesting, although I suspect if they had a jaguar template it would have turned out the same because the JM and jag have the same body, just different layouts for hardware due to the scale length.

I dismissed the official jag-stang as just "ugly." but now I really do understand they were going for a way to keep the guitar's total volume "mustang like" ie slim and small. As I said, I just think they went too far. My newest version makes the pinched waist less extreme, but still pinched to compensate for the added volume in the butt and horn. I'm so surprised I hadn't thought of it sooner! my own Mark VIII, and other attempts at this design, all made the mistake of keeping the mustang's waist the same but adding the jag horn and jag butt, resulting in a guitar that's just too big for the mustang hardware and proportions!

The other thing even the official jag-stang didn't do was depress the cutaway. Even kurt "saw" this and requested it in the "re-shaped lower horn." He was seeing that the mustang cutaway needed to be flattened and depressed to mix with the jag cutaway.

The official jag's horn is too big as well. The mustangs horns are tiny. The jag's horn is huge. I made a smaller horn that is exactly in between the two and I feel it's much more balanced.

Mark X is coming with a slightly refined lower butt.

This upcoming MIM reissue has really inspired me and I feel I've gained new insight on this design philosophically!

[sal paradise]

I said your original design felt a bit similar to the mustang. I love the IX! It has a LT instantly unique look. Would totally play one of those. Great stuff

[neutralomen]

I said your original design felt a bit similar to the mustang. I love the IX! It has a LT instantly unique look. Would totally play one of those. Great stuff

Thanks! your feedback definitely helped inspire me to re-think everything.

[sal paradise]

I said your original design felt a bit similar to the mustang. I love the IX! It has a LT instantly unique look. Would totally play one of those. Great stuff

Thanks! your feedback definitely helped inspire me to re-think everything.

Both look great. But as a mustang player, I’d fancy something that looks a little different.

What are you thinking for pickups?

[neutralomen]

I said your original design felt a bit similar to the mustang. I love the IX! It has a LT instantly unique look. Would totally play one of those. Great stuff

Thanks! your feedback definitely helped inspire me to re-think everything.

Both look great. But as a mustang player, I’d fancy something that looks a little different.

What are you thinking for pickups?

I think the "double slanted single coil" proportions are essential, but of course this will be a rock machine so the bridge will need some kind of medium or high output rails humbucker. My current favorites are a Lindy Fralin Blues Special for the neck and a dimarzio pro track 2 or duncan hot rails in the bridge. The super distortion S is also a contender but my GOD that's a bassy, gainy pup.

[sal paradise]

Thanks! your feedback definitely helped inspire me to re-think everything.

Both look great. But as a mustang player, I’d fancy something that looks a little different.

What are you thinking for pickups?

I think the "double slanted single coil" proportions are essential, but of course this will be a rock machine so the bridge will need some kind of medium or high output rails humbucker. My current favorites are a Lindy Fralin Blues Special for the neck and a dimarzio pro track 2 or duncan hot rails in the bridge. The super distortion S is also a contender but my GOD that's a bassy, gainy pup.

You can’t go wrong with hotrails.

I used to be a massive fan of the DM SD - but now I find it too aggressive. Which is a shame as I’ve got a KC Jag & a spare SD knocking around that I was planning on putting in an SG copy.

[Addam]

That reminds me of the Jagstang like thing I need to finish.

The essentially, it's 80% Jagstang, though the lower horn is standard mustang as is the section between the tip of the upper horn to just past the waist on the top.
I'm ashamed to say this pic was taken in 2012 and I still need to buff the paint and assemble it.
*EDIT*
I built mine from 38mm poplar and added contours front and back.
The belly cut made for very thin timber in the bottom of the routing for the switches.
I have a Jaguar pickup with black cover for the neck position and a cheap copy of a superdistortion.

[neutralomen]

That reminds me of the Jagstang like thing I need to finish.

The essentially, it's 80% Jagstang, though the lower horn is standard mustang as is the section between the tip of the upper horn to just past the waist on the top.
I'm ashamed to say this pic was taken in 2012 and I still need to buff the paint and assemble it.
*EDIT*
I built mine from 38mm poplar and added contours front and back.
The belly cut made for very thin timber in the bottom of the routing for the switches.
I have a Jaguar pickup with black cover for the neck position and a cheap copy of a superdistortion.

That's very tasteful! probably the most tasteful I've ever seen made in the real world! Nice work! I'm personally a stickler for proportions so I would have kept the pickups an SS slant configuration but I know not everyone cares about that stuff.

All that's really different from yours when it comes to my new design is that I'm pinching the waist a bit and "jagging" the cutaway. Also I feel strongly that mustangs and jag-stangs should be SLAB! I know they're less practical, but I have a bit of a romance for the slab body on the 60s mustangs. This looks very similar to what my Mark VIII was. Love it!

[Amon 7.L]

What about this tweak?

[neutralomen]

What about this tweak?

In my opinion the tweak is an improvement. The one on the let's butt is too extreme and lopsided I think.

I personally still think the tweak needs total volume removed by making the entire lower butt slightly smaller and taking the waist in, just not as much as the official jag stang which took it too far.

The tweaks body again is quite attractive though and I think you did a great job. I especially like how you kept the horn tasteful and under control. The official jag stangs horn is just way too big like a bunny ear

[Fiddy]

I like both a and b.