Acubens, a new design project

[Amon 7.L]

Hi folks,
this is a design project I'm working since a few months now, it's still at embryo state but I'd like your opinion on the current state of things.

The fulcrum of this project (and another one I'm still working on) is the two-in-one bridge/tremolo solution combined in the same plate, on the same principle of my Mustang/Jaguar tremolo conversion I've drawn a while ago, here's a link if you want to check it out:
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... =8&t=94048

Even thou I love offsets to pieces, my imprinting has been with a strat, which accustomed me to the 5-way blade switch in that very precise position and to the same knob layout: Master vol and two tone knobs.
The extra 3-way toggle switch is there for aesthetic reason for this time being, but I guess we can found some use out of it later on.

Another thing I wanted was a new pickup shape/design to accompany the guitar's outfit without re-using the same single coil/humbucker standards, otherwise I'd feel like I'm just changing dress to the same old models. So, I went oval and just played with the polepieces. I still have no idea of what kind of breed will they be in terms of construction, but I had to start from somewhere.

No more talking, there you go a general raw Photoshop mock up:

I don't know if we can consider it a proper offset as the angle's very shallow, but that it is.

I then moved back into AutoCAD to translate the creature in a three dimensional environment.
Unfortunately, the lower cut-away radius was too extreme and the 3D fillet command didn't cooperate to give the body the roundover I wanted and surely I wasn't keen on wasting time to overcome the bug, therefore: THINLINE, a quick practical alternative.



Of course, when we think of thin-lines, we also imply "cavities" and cavities are for showing, so... without too much thinking I've just copied/pasted the number 7 out of my decal logo and used as a prop for a sound hole. (it's just an idea that needs proper reshaping, I know)




Knobs close up:


also, to facilitated a build in case the oval shaped pickup won't be available, an alternative solution would be this:


Things I'd like to do:
1) Get rid of the TOM bridge which is there just as a prop and try to design something new;
2) Maybe go on with some sort of german carve and sink the plates flush with the top of the body.

What do you guys think?
Brainstorm the shit out of you here, it's much welcome.

Crude, rude, cruel critics are much appreciated as well, I won't get offended either.

Thanks for reading.

[Rgand]

Things I'd like to do:
1) Get rid of the TOM bridge which is there just as a prop and try to design something new;
2) Maybe go on with some sort of german carve and sink the plates flush with the top of the body.

What do you guys think?
Brainstorm the shit out of you here, it's much welcome.

Crude, rude, cruel critics are much appreciated as well, I won't get offended either.

Thanks for reading.

There are things I like about this. The oval pickups are really attractive. I hope you can be successful with those. Is the 7 an F-hole? If so, that's really cool. You could do with fewer controls but that's minor because it would depend on what you have them do. Not everyone feels this way but for me the selector switch would be in the way and I'd like to see that moved back away from the bridge pickup. Maybe offer an alternate layout, there.

1) Maybe a Toronado type bridge or even a Tele one, modified to your oval shape, or at least until you get to the adjustment screw end, would look outstanding.

2) A German curve would look good on this. Also a more pronounced roundover would look good. I find sharp guitar corners really uncomfortable and would like to see comfort contours, at least as an option.

Overall, this is a fine design. Stay with it.

[Rgand]

Things I'd like to do:
1) Get rid of the TOM bridge which is there just as a prop and try to design something new;
2) Maybe go on with some sort of german carve and sink the plates flush with the top of the body.

What do you guys think?
Brainstorm the shit out of you here, it's much welcome.

Crude, rude, cruel critics are much appreciated as well, I won't get offended either.

Thanks for reading.

There are things I like about this. The oval pickups are really attractive. I hope you can be successful with those. Is the 7 an F-hole? If so, that's really cool. You could do with fewer controls but that's minor because it would depend on what you have them do. Not everyone feels this way but for me the selector switch would be in the way and I'd like to see that moved back away from the bridge pickup. Maybe offer an alternate layout, there.

1) Maybe a Toronado type bridge or even a Strat-type modified to your oval shape, or at least until you get to the adjustment screw end, would look outstanding.

2) A German curve would look good on this. Also a more pronounced roundover would look good. I find sharp guitar corners really uncomfortable and would like to see comfort contours, at least as an option.

Overall, this is a fine design. Stay with it.

[Shadoweclipse13]

I LOVE the bridge design. It might be a bit funky to make and get mounted perfectly, but the overlapping ovals, in a Venn-diagram kind of way. I agree with Rgand on the idea of a German carve. This thing screams 1960's Japanese/European, and needs that little extra classy touch.

I would say that I personally prefer the orientation of the "7" f-hole like this:

[Amon 7.L]

There are things I like about this. The oval pickups are really attractive. I hope you can be successful with those. Is the 7 an F-hole? If so, that's really cool. You could do with fewer controls but that's minor because it would depend on what you have them do. Not everyone feels this way but for me the selector switch would be in the way and I'd like to see that moved back away from the bridge pickup. Maybe offer an alternate layout, there.

1) Maybe a Toronado type bridge or even a Strat-type modified to your oval shape, or at least until you get to the adjustment screw end, would look outstanding.

2) A German curve would look good on this. Also a more pronounced roundover would look good. I find sharp guitar corners really uncomfortable and would like to see comfort contours, at least as an option.

Overall, this is a fine design. Stay with it.

Yes, the 7 is a F-hole.
I know the vast majority won't find the blade switch in a comfortable position, in this design I'm trying to lay things as to my most comfortable locations, aka: a strat.
Of course the control layout would be tweaked to be more out of the way if I were aiming for a general public so keep that in mind.

Re 1): With Toronado-type bridge you mean make it hard-tail with a string-thru combo and the oval shape proceeding in the upper bidge lip AFTER the bending?
In a perfect world, I would like a Toronado shaped plate that fits a strat trem.. that would be glorious. especially for my Maya project, I would mount it in a blink of an eye.
.
Re 2): My idea is to have a standard generous roundover and contours, the thin-line render is due to a bug of AutoCAD that won't allow me to fillet on the super tight radii of the lower horn, I can't stand sharp corners just as much as you do.

I LOVE the bridge design. It might be a bit funky to make and get mounted perfectly, but the overlapping ovals, in a Venn-diagram kind of way. I agree with Rgand on the idea of a German carve. This thing screams 1960's Japanese/European, and needs that little extra classy touch.

I would say that I personally prefer the orientation of the "7" f-hole like this:

I'm doing some tests and the german carve is growing on me.
Overlapping the ovals is also one of the several options in my drafting board, I don't think it would be that difficult to get mounted correctly as long as you make a good template. After all, at the current stage, the oval plate has the guts of a jazzmaster trem and two bridge mounting holes like a mustang's vibrato plate. After all having both trem and bridge holes in the same plates means they're always aligned with each other without any thinkering.
Check the plate and body route, I guess that as soon as you locate the position of your bridge to your scale lenght, all you have to do is screw the plate down, as for the thimble holes for the TOM/Mustang bridge are already within the oval itself. Run two outer string from the nut to the back of the plate as you would do with any jaguar/jazzmaster and your pretty much done.




A well-done template would then take care of the pickups and extra detatched half-moon shaped plate locations.

For the time being, just a quick extra photoshop mock-up with a more pronunced round-over, a tweaked 7-F hole mock up.



I'm also working on a lower horn reshape, atm it's probably too harsh on the eyes even thou is a rather comfortable on my leg.

Plus... Rgand has given me an idea... What about converting this structure in a scale lenght converter?? Same plate with extra long screws and stratocaster -or either telecaster- saddles with a string-thru configuration (perhaps a double row of ferrules to match long AND short scale necks)??

[Rgand]

Re 1): With Toronado-type bridge you mean make it hard-tail with a string-thru combo and the oval shape proceeding in the upper bidge lip AFTER the bending?

Yes, that's what I had in mind.

Plus... Rgand has given me an idea... What about converting this structure in a scale lenght converter?? Same plate with extra long screws and stratocaster -or either telecaster- saddles with a string-thru configuration (perhaps a double row of ferrules to match long AND short scale necks)??

If you can make that work, it would be ultra cool.

[Amon 7.L]

Alright, Mr Rgand... being you a source of inspiration and support, I dedicate this update to you!

This entry drifts from the original topic but I'll keep going in here unless a dedicated thread would be requested.

How many times in this forum we read about people asking "Shortscale Jazzmaster, anyone?", "Full scale Jaguar/Mustang?" or anything in between and beyond? Right, more than we can keep track.
Most certainly the answer was prone to "get a new custom body" or "get a conversion neck", right?

So, what would you do when you're having a giganting oval plate and a fellow suggests you to give it a Toronado twist?
I do get a hardtail plate that has no jazzmaster trem guts and a looooot of free estate.

Then it hit me.
These are the 4 most common scales we have on our beloved axes, thing is... unless you surrender to the idea of buying a dedicated conversion neck, you won't be able to put your favourite long scale neck on your short scale body, as it won't intonate without doing some overhaul.


As you can see from top to bottom we have a sample of each scale neck with the bridge placement marked below the oval plate.

Now, for a better insight a close up of said plate with those placements marked up.


What we have now on the oval plate is a super stupidly easy mod that would allow to go from the default 24" neck up to the 30" of a Bass VI, all it needs is some long screws (available on ebay, I've check it out before going 3D on CAD).

This was just the starting point, I had to see what the Mustang Dynamic Vibrato could handle... so, I guess that if you can accept transfering the guts of a Jazzmaster trem WITHOUT the collect on the same footprinted Mustang plate, this would be a mod that won't mangle your body with crazy routes as you can make the body string thru or either top loaded. Plus, your Mustang can now handle 3 scales without going insane: you swap the neck, you intonate the saddle, you play it.

This is the oval plate with scale conversion feature and the top lip in a Toronado fashion.
Of course, you can run the strings from the top lip, or any of the 2 rows of string-thru holes within the plate itself. Just because: Options, right?



The concept is open to billion combinations of plates/saddle arrangements: telecaster bridge footprint for those who like a convertible telemaster is the first one it comes to my mind.

Also, some smaller footprint for custom scratch builds or for less invasive design:


I'm just thinking right now about incorporating six 4mm presetted pin mounting holes to match the three 24/24.75/25.5 scales onto which mount a TOM bridge (or any 2-pivot mounting alternative with compatible mounting post holes), the plate would really be almost "universal".
Furthermore, there won't be any uncoverable nor visible routing as the unused 4 pins would simply require 4 screws to be covered in case you'd end up changing necks along the way.

My brain is spinning full throttle.

[Rgand]

Wow, you've been busy! I like the versatility of the different scales. This would allow you to basically use any neck that would fit the neck pocket. I like it.

If you wanted to reduce the number of string-through holes, you could make slotted holes, like they put on the hardtail plates for JM and Jag, for the row of string holes right behind the 25-1/2" scale . If you lengthen the whole thing an eighth of an inch, you could eliminate all string-through holes by putting slotted holes near the rear, too.

[solfege]

This is very cool. I wonder about pickup placement tho. It's still almost surely going to be optimal for one or two of those scales, and less so for the others, no?

[Shadoweclipse13]

I'll just leave this here for inspiration

[Amon 7.L]

Wow, you've been busy! I like the versatility of the different scales. This would allow you to basically use any neck that would fit the neck pocket. I like it.

If you wanted to reduce the number of string-through holes, you could make slotted holes, like they put on the hardtail plates for JM and Jag, for the row of string holes right behind the 25-1/2" scale . If you lengthen the whole thing an eighth of an inch, you could eliminate all string-through holes by putting slotted holes near the rear, too.

This is the right input, those slots would be a practical solution, it surely works perfectly for the 24--->25.5" scales.
The only problem with having a single row and lengthening the plate is that we'd need even longer strings and -i guess- wood underneath the plate for the mounting screws as the slot would require a route underneath to allow the travel of the string's ball-ends. No big dead thou, If someone gets to the 30" neck, mounting the string on the top lip would be even look nicer and give it continuity.

This is very cool. I wonder about pickup placement tho. It's still almost surely going to be optimal for one or two of those scales, and less so for the others, no?

Thank you. The pickup placement I guess is what could give the different twist. If we think about it, Stratocasters and Jazzmasters share the same scale length but due to the different nature of their bridge pickup, the polepieces won't be in the same spot either and I think there's always a compromise to keep into account. Even transplanting Jazzmaster pu on a short scale Jaguar won't get you a 1:1 sound.
Nonetheless, your consideration made me think of this:

I've incorporated the presetted scales pin mounting holes I was talking about in the previous post and an extra pickup to be used as a bridge pu for the 30" neck or as "behind the bridge drone source" for the other smaller scales. The unused pins holes would be simply covered by regular screws.
Maybe a common slot for the 24 and 24.75 scales would be ideal if we have wide ranged saddle bridge like the original Bass VI's. Food for further thoughts.

@Shadoweclipse13: God almighty, man... what is that thing of beauty?? Tell me more!!

[Futuron]

The movable bridge! What sorcery is this?!?

[Shadoweclipse13]

@Shadoweclipse13: God almighty, man... what is that thing of beauty?? Tell me more!!

Right? My jaw dropped when I saw that. It's not mine unfortunately. All I can really figure is that it had the German carve and then the binding slots for the top and bottom of the carve were cut. Not sure how. I vow to find a way to do it and make something like that some day. Just lovely.

[Amon 7.L]

The movable bridge! What sorcery is this?!?

Look, it moves on its own

@Shadoweclipse13: God almighty, man... what is that thing of beauty?? Tell me more!!

Right? My jaw dropped when I saw that. It's not mine unfortunately. All I can really figure is that it had the German carve and then the binding slots for the top and bottom of the carve were cut. Not sure how. I vow to find a way to do it and make something like that some day. Just lovely.

Bloody hell, YES! Do you know what kind of model is?
I guess the binding/carving process would be as it follows

I had to make this ghetto-jig when I had to add the binding to an already carved neck, the principle is the same:


0) Once you have the ball-bearing set for the body to bottom up and give you a perfect reference proceed.
1) Route the top with like 4mm offset binding channel (set the depth accordingly to the german carving router bit you'll need next);
2) Re-align the router to the ball bearing in order to carve for the lower top binding channel (height and depth as per your ABS material specs). Carve top first, the flip the bottom and you have three channels;
3) Install the binding on the bottom and middle section of the body;
4) Load a german carving bit on your router and set the depth to bottom on the top of the upper binding, it will carve a perfectly offsetted;
5) Once again, re-align the router with the binding bit to slot the highest channel, set the depth as the height of the ABS;
6) Install the binding.

This is how I would do it

[Jaguar018]

Would the frets in the neck still work/get good notes at all the different scales? I thought that was one of the main reasons you can't just switch the bridge on a whim.