JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

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supersonicjazzmaster
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri May 10, 2019 3:41 am

I thought this could be maybe interesting for this thread?
Got my blue CIJ 2002 Jaguar from the rehearsal room.
Checked the color with my ´97 Jagstang. So take a look at the pics to see the difference in colors.
The Jag is a sonic blue I guess...? In reality it looks a bit like the prototype pics were Kurt playing it.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri May 10, 2019 3:43 am

I thought this could be maybe interesting for this thread?
Got my blue CIJ 2002 Jaguar from the rehearsal room.
Checked the color with my ´97 Jagstang. So take a look at the pics to see the difference in colors.
The Jag is a sonic blue I guess...? In reality it looks a bit like the prototype pics were Kurt playing it.


Image


Image


Image
NEW ALBUM OUT: https://kilaueas.bandcamp.com/album/touch-my-alien
www.kilaueas.de
https://www.facebook.com/thekilaueas


twang cheers!
Ralf Kilauea

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri May 10, 2019 3:48 am

Ah! The first post on this 8th page was not correct by me! Sorry!
With my 15 years ago modified Supersonic I wanted to show that it is a senseful mod to get the pickup switches smaller. ...when hard playing live I often shred with my hand over the switches, which is aching and gets a pickup out maybe...
The other pic are simply related to this thread guitars I thought. :)
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri May 10, 2019 3:54 am

For me this pic down here is also interesting because of the colors. Mustang-Jagstang-Jaguar
If we remember what Kurt wrote, he wants "surf green", the 1997 Jagstang is not so bad.

Image
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri May 10, 2019 5:06 am

..
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Fri May 10, 2019 5:21 am

supersonicjazzmaster wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:43 am
I thought this could be maybe interesting for this thread?
Got my blue CIJ 2002 Jaguar from the rehearsal room.
Checked the color with my ´97 Jagstang. So take a look at the pics to see the difference in colors.
The Jag is a sonic blue I guess...? In reality it looks a bit like the prototype pics were Kurt playing it.

Image
Thank you for chiming in!
Yup, it's indeed interesting for this thread.

As I've wrote in the wrap-up on my last update, there are still problems identifying the actual colour of the prototype.
One thing I forgot to mention is that -for some reason- during the first run of production, Fender Japan seems to have changed the paint dealer, so.. the first batch of the distinctive -let's call it- "aqua blue" has been replaced by the later -japanese- sonic blue we're all so familiar with.
Probably they were labelled the same, but we know for a fact that the Japanese colour counterparts doesn't always match the original USA.

Your very hi-quality pics give me indication of a few things:

A) If the colour of your CIJ 2002 Jaguar is faithful to what you see with your bare eyes, then I can tell you that it does perfectly match my sonic blue CIJ 2004-2005 Mustang I've posted earlier in the thread as per reference together with the jagstang-done-right in Daphne blue.
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 0#p1560105
I can assure you that in person said Mustang is undeniably identical to the shade of your Jag your hi-res pic. That counts UNLESS your matching headstock Jaguar is one of the special run finished in Daphne.

B) If your CIJ is Daphne. then your 97 jagstang should be sonic blue (2nd batch of paint, the real sonic blue, nor "aqua") and if we compare your guitar family pic with my counterpart in the link, the difference in shade between Daphne/Sonic Blue are compatible with each other.
Still, the colour of your jagstang looks too green to my eyes and it confuses me.
supersonicjazzmaster wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:54 am
For me this pic down here is also interesting because of the colors. Mustang-Jagstang-Jaguar
If we remember what Kurt wrote, he wants "surf green", the 1997 Jagstang is not so bad.

Image
Kurt actually wrote "aqua blue/green like old mustang" which is not surf green but a faded daphne. Yet, the colour of your 97 jagstang could be possible, even thou the jaguar next to it, looks closer to the prototype. You know.. take two pictures, change environment light of a tiny bit and you'd get all sorts of dramatic change. :fp:

Me and AcrylicSuperman are still discussing this intricate subject and we came to the conclusion that even if even we establish the coordinates of this first batch of alleged "aqua blue" finished jagstang, being the prototype body being painted in the USA leaves us in the open water due to the fact that, I reiterate this again, Fender USA at that time used both Duco 2804 (daphne) and Duco 2295 (sonic blue, the real one, which is different than its Japanese counterpart), hence.. the guitar couldn't have been Sonic Blue for that fact that it would have look unmistakably light compared to the sonic blue of Cobain's RI Mustangs that have been finished in Japan with a Japanese "sonic blue".
So... The real prototype could only have been USA Daphne or a special custom batch of paint based matching the description Cobain wrote in his polaroid sketch.

Keeping in mind that is impossible to use online pics as reference due to factors such as: different finishes, different country of manufacture, aging process, light influence and god only knows what else you can put in the mix, whichever results you'd get would still be in the realm of "yup, that colour is close enough."

Our only feasible move is, if you can and have the chance to, to take your guitar in a paint store, they can scan the finish in a split second and give you a result that could identify a specific car model/year, to which we can then see if could have been my speculated "custom batch" finish Fender USA might have used to finish the prototype body. It's really our last option to sort this last bit of the puzzle.
Last edited by Amon 7.L on Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Fri May 10, 2019 8:07 am

Amon 7.L wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:21 am
Our only feasible move is, if you can and have the chance to, to take your guitar in a paint store, they can scan the finish in a split second and give you a result that could identify a specific car model/year, to which we can then see if could have been my speculated "custom batch" finish Fender USA might have used to finish the prototype body. It's really our last option to sort this last bit of the puzzle.
This is specifically important. Fender has primarily always used automotive paint on their instruments. I'm sure that over the years they have experimented here and there, but automotive paint has always been a sure and safe bet. However, if they mixed a special shade, it might not be an automotive paint at that point.

If you have your Jagstang scanned for us, 3 codes should pop up. Please ask for a print out of those codes and provide us with all 3. Even if it is an automotive paint, some shades may vary pending on the maker, and we should be able to figure that out using those codes.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Fri May 10, 2019 9:31 am

A tiny bump for the guitar body scan request.

In order to avoid the mess that would cause to scan a guitar that has faded to any extent, I think I should update the thread and specify to take said scan from a region under the pickguard or, easier being just 3 screws: under the metal control plate.
Those are the safest area for a trusty result.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Sat May 11, 2019 12:27 am

I try to find a store where I can get a scan.
Who knows something in Berlin?
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat May 11, 2019 2:52 am

I just did a quick google research using "automotive paint store berlin germany" as a keyword. I don't know where are you located but it looks like there's plenty of choice :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=automot ... 1,lf_ui:10

If you get the paint scanned and if the database doens't get us a specific car model/year/colour identification, they still can give you the coordinates of these 3 parameters:

HEX
RGB
CMYK

Thanks again for your availability, kind sir.
Last edited by Amon 7.L on Sat May 11, 2019 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Sat May 11, 2019 3:01 am

Alright, I´ll try to get answers. :)
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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sat May 11, 2019 7:08 am

supersonicjazzmaster wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:01 am
Alright, I´ll try to get answers. :)
Thank you for your help! Greatly appreciated!

As a quick update: I have reached out to Master Builder Jason Smith, son of Dan Smith. I don't expect to hear anything back right away. If he is willing or can share information on this subject, the number one question I am going to ask him is about the color. If measurements for his necks still exist, I will try to get those too. If there is anything anyone else may want to know about it, now is the time to let me know.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat May 11, 2019 7:38 am

Great!

These are some of the specs it would be nice to have checked against my findings via CAD renderings:

1) Body thickness;
2) Body roundover;
3) Body colour & type of finish;
4) neck pocket and cavity depths;
5) Nut width;
6) 1st & 12th fret thickness.
7) Location of the serial number.

Edit:
8 ) Pictures of the body or the guitar as a whole.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Sat May 11, 2019 7:44 am

Amon 7.L wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:38 am
Great!

These are some of the specs it would be nice to have checked against my findings via CAD renderings:

1) Body thickness;
2) Body roundover;
3) Body colour & type of finish;
4) neck pocket and cavity depths;
5) Nut width;
6) 1st & 12th fret thickness.
7) Location of the serial number.

Edit:
8 ) Pictures of the body or the guitar as a whole.
Here's hoping he is willing and/or able to answer some questions. Will let you know if I get a response.

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Re: JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

Post by Amon 7.L » Sat May 11, 2019 7:45 am

Fingers crossed.

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