Modding My Archtop - Done on Page 2

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Modding My Archtop - Done on Page 2

Post by funkyeah! » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:00 am

I tried starting a membership on the jazzguitar.be forum but my posts won't show up so lemme tell you guys about this:

I modified my Epiphone Masterbilt Deluxe a while back by adding floating pickups. After playing with them for some time I've become dissatisfied with the tone so have decided to upgrade to full PAF humbuckers (a 59 neck and Pearly Gates bridge).

Image

I tested the effect of adding their mass to the soundboard by taping a bag of coins at the same weight in the two spots and it definitely ate up some volume and mids. Not for me so I decided to float the humbuckers.

There's not a whole lot of information about doing this though. By and large the jazz guys on that site don't seem to be nearly as knowledgeable about fixing their own stuff or tinkering with gear. I also wasn't able to find out much about how people float theirs because it's not often done.

I figured I could buy angle iron and JB Weld the pickup casings to the side rail, screw mount the iron to the neck, and crazy glue the pickguard to the iron. Like so:

Image

I had to buy 1/2"x3/4" angle aluminum though. I cut it to 10" to go from about the 17th fret to the end of the bridge pickup and then needed to contour it to the archtop because it wouldn't let the pickguard sit low enough for my picking hand. I used a crown molding profile tool to copy the curvature and rasped my aluminum

Image

I'm about to go JB weld the neck pickup onto it after measuring and comparing multiple times the height it should roughly be. The pearly gates is still in the mail so I'll need to do that tomorrow evening when it comes and prepare the test fitting on the guitar.

I pressed on the aluminum to see how it would resist the weight of two humbuckers and it seems to be fine holding them. The pickguard side mount will also help support a little.

Oh, also, the pickups have to be modified to do this. The legs have been snapped clean off and I need to saw the polepiece screws flush so they won't scratch up the top if the pickup gets pressed down.

I don't think I'm too crazy for doing this but the guitar isn't amazingly nice so I'm not devaluing much. It sounds decent because it's pressed instead of laminate and it sure looks purdy. This is my jazz and sitting around the house guitar so I need electric and full acoustic quality out of it. Hopefully this is successful and can be a resource for people looking to mod their humbucker to be a floating pickup.
Last edited by funkyeah! on Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:01 am

I also realize those image links aren't working for some reason

Here is a link to the photo folder
https://imgur.com/gallery/wfLXgs7
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
Deed_Poll
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3209
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:24 am
Location: Brighton, UK

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by Deed_Poll » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:43 am

Hey dude! Looking good!

As for the images, sometimes imgur copies a different version of the URL of the image (it's really inconsistent in my experience).

I find it usually works if you add in "i." so that it reads "https://i.imgur..." and add in ".jpg" at the end.

Good luck!
Owner Operator of GuitarForm - Custom Offset Guitar Bodies
www.guitarform.com ◈ @guitar_form

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:12 am

Thank you, sir! Also, the reason I'm actually doing something about this guitar instead of leaving it alone is I've been helping out with my city's All-City Jazz Band and they have no guitarist yet. It's helping me work on my jazz playing though which is really why I go haha.
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:47 pm

Soooooo

JB Weld didn't hold it. I don't know if the pickups are just too smooth or what but the smallest bump allowed them to fall off.

So I'll go with a stupid easy solution and velcro them to the surface of the archtop...

Not preferable. Any ideas now that I've broken the tabs off the humbuckers? I can maybe solder them back on.

Or what would work as opposed to JB weld? It stuck to the aluminum angle fine. Dremel some grooves into the side of the pickup so the epoxy has more to grab onto?
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:02 am

Figured out a better solution.

My angle aluminum situation works and is the right height now. I'm going to sand off the jb weld and just use 3m dual lock to adhere the pickups to the rail. I'll put a small layer of foam under the pickups for height so they don't stress the 3m too much.
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
andy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: Regina, SK

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by andy » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:38 am

Very cool! Good job. I can’t wait to see how it turns out!
Send me western swing vids

User avatar
Deed_Poll
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3209
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:24 am
Location: Brighton, UK

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by Deed_Poll » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:12 am

Good plan! I am watching, you're just already way out of my comfort zone so I wouldn't know what to suggest! ;D
Owner Operator of GuitarForm - Custom Offset Guitar Bodies
www.guitarform.com ◈ @guitar_form

User avatar
andy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: Regina, SK

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by andy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:10 pm

Any updates??
Send me western swing vids

User avatar
JakeNelson2002
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by JakeNelson2002 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:50 am

subscribed

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:23 pm

Sorry for the necro post but this same guitar is getting a new cutaway added!

I wanted to go for something more akin to the Gibson Super 400 style florentine cut instead of an ES-175's contour. It just looks odd to me how much the curve comes out from the body before swooping up.

Image

as opposed to this:

Image

My cutaway sketch on masking tape:
Image

So I used a pull saw for the straight cut down the heel block and stopped right where the curve kicked in (It was probably my straightest and smoothest cut yet). Also started the cut at the point of the cutaway and then everything else was routed out with a straight bit. That should've been terrifying but wasn't that bad. I should point out the strings have stayed on at tension for this entire mod process.

Image

Did this, bent 4 .5mm thick flame maple veneers into the proper shape. Then I decided I'd like to do a compound curve and make the heel twist to match the neck's taper. Tried with the saw but it was harder now that I had less to reference off of. A Shinto rasp worked well to handle this new contour. The veneers were pliable enough to twist into shape while layering and gluing into the guitar (after kerfs had been glued in).

A word of caution to anyone that does this. Make sure your kerfs sit proud of the cutaway on the back wood if you do the compound curve like I did. You have to have material there to sand away because the angle from back to side will no longer be 90* but something more like 100 or 110*

So now I'm waiting for binding to come, need to figure out how to match the color of the wood, apply satin poly because the rest of the guitar has that, and figure out a new attachment solution for the neck pickup. The cutaway meets the neck right where the neck extension tapers down to the top of the guitar so I can't really screw the aluminum angle to the same neck holes (it'll jut out past the pickguard and cutaway). I may have a solution but it involves making a wood block that exactly matches the curve under the neck extension and screwing that into the neck so I can just dual lock the pickup there. I would still have a small bit of aluminum angle under the guard to dual lock to as well and it keep the pickguard from bowing with the weight of the bridge pickup.

Image

Image

Image
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
Flurko
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Stroßbùrri
Contact:

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by Flurko » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:03 am

This is completely bonkers and I'm all for it.
Now I want to see you make another cutaway, Barney Kessel signature-like.
More seriously, given how hard you worked to avoid carving the top for humbuckers, aren't you bothered about the change in tone that such a big structural mod would do?

User avatar
noisepunk
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 16807
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: glasgow, scotland
Contact:

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by noisepunk » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:30 am

funkyeah! wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:02 am
Figured out a better solution.

My angle aluminum situation works and is the right height now. I'm going to sand off the jb weld and just use 3m dual lock to adhere the pickups to the rail. I'll put a small layer of foam under the pickups for height so they don't stress the 3m too much.
it seems more than a little late to offer up thoughts on this, but a mechanical bond is always going to be the best solution for something like this barring actual welding (which would be extreme and probably wouldn't really work for this anyway because of metal mismatches).

without seeing your rig, my first thought was bolts through the side of the pickup covers right into the rail...as i think about it though, some kind of base plate extension would be less invasive and probably easier to accomplish too–just some thinner plate aluminum (or steel) cut to the size of the pickups and bolted to both them and the rail from the bottom.



...anyways, agree with Flurko: this is bonkers and i'm so here for it :w00t:

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:40 pm

This guitar is parallel braced and the middle section seems to have the most effect on acoustic sound. If I hold fingers down on the top near the edges it muffles a little bit but if I do it in the center column anywhere down the length of the guitar, it gets much less open and full sounding. I play it acoustically at home a lot so I’d prefer not to deaden that liveliness of the middle top.

I was surprised how little effect the open cutaway had on acoustic tone. It doesn’t seem that different once closed up but that may be because it’s not an extremely stiff side, it’s 4 veneers glued up without a caul so there is probably some slop between layers.
Flurko wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:03 am
This is completely bonkers and I'm all for it.
Now I want to see you make another cutaway, Barney Kessel signature-like.
More seriously, given how hard you worked to avoid carving the top for humbuckers, aren't you bothered about the change in tone that such a big structural mod would do?
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

User avatar
funkyeah!
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Modding My Archtop

Post by funkyeah! » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:43 pm

The problem is I have no good spot for the rail to attach to anymore. I think I need to make a piece that fits under the neck extension and then I can shorten the tail, screw onto that.
noisepunk wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:30 am
funkyeah! wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:02 am
Figured out a better solution.

My angle aluminum situation works and is the right height now. I'm going to sand off the jb weld and just use 3m dual lock to adhere the pickups to the rail. I'll put a small layer of foam under the pickups for height so they don't stress the 3m too much.
it seems more than a little late to offer up thoughts on this, but a mechanical bond is always going to be the best solution for something like this barring actual welding (which would be extreme and probably wouldn't really work for this anyway because of metal mismatches).

without seeing your rig, my first thought was bolts through the side of the pickup covers right into the rail...as i think about it though, some kind of base plate extension would be less invasive and probably easier to accomplish too–just some thinner plate aluminum (or steel) cut to the size of the pickups and bolted to both them and the rail from the bottom.



...anyways, agree with Flurko: this is bonkers and i'm so here for it :w00t:
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.

Post Reply