Determining Bridge Location + Considerations for Thicker Gauge Strings?

[jasburbak]

What is the consensus on the additional forward/backward movement (from the scale length) of the bridge location when compensating for thicker gauge strings? *11's or 12's. Considering that thicker gauge strings require a bit more adjustment of the saddles towards the butt end of the guitar for proper intonation.

The question is derived from my current project : Which in itself has a question.



24 inch scale (Jaguar Neck)
Callaham Hardtail Strat Bridge.
Will be strung up with 11's, perhaps 12's.

I've measured from Nut end to 12th fret; thats 12 inches. Then from 12th fret, measured 12 inches to find correct location of bridge placement. Now, you can't just place the bridge at that exact location due to Low E and High E intonation issues, so I screwed the Low E saddle all the way back and the High E saddle forward till almost the end of where it can go.



I then, split the difference between them, and adjusted the middle two saddles to the location that would be the "in between" of both extremes of the High and Low E's. Would where the middle saddles are currently adjusted at (the string break angle point on the saddles), be the proper location for the 24inch fret scale line? Does this logic make sense?



Another question thats making me scratch my head is that on StewMacs fret calculator to determine bridge locations it states:

Telecaster® style bridges 24.235" (± 0.030")
Stratocaster® style bridges 23.765" (± 0.030")
Non-tremolo bridge

So, with the Strat bridge, I should place it a bit more forward towards the neck. Then, move it back a bit for thicker string compensation?

Any tips?

[Toots]

I don't worry about string thickness when I place a bridge, unless it's something crazy thick.
It has worked fine so far.
I measure out the scale, set high E at forward most place, screw it back a lil bit, and place it at scale.

Those distances from stewmac are different because

"Distance indicated is from the fretboard edge of the nut to center of forward-most mounting screw or pivot post."

[oid]

If I am unsure about compensation I just make a quick test jig with a scrap of wood, find it quicker and more reliable then transferring numbers from calculator to plan. Just a tuner, two cm or so tall triangular bits of hardwood for bridge and nut and a almost any scrap of wood which has enough extra length for the tuner and a nail to serve as anchor.

That said, I would not bother for most guitars tuned E to E with normal guages. 11 and 12s I would generally consider normal, but there are some sets of 12s out there with rather hefty 6ths.

[jasburbak]

I measure out the scale, set high E at forward most place, screw it back a lil bit, and place it at scale.

Those distances from stewmac are different because

"Distance indicated is from the fretboard edge of the nut to center of forward-most mounting screw or pivot post."

So essentially, you use the furthest most saddles' point as the reference, and place that on the scale length's line. I believe in that case, it would allow the saddles to move back further than my proposed method (setting it at the midway of High and Low E's), but the maximum the High E could move would be just a tiny bit more, when intonating. I assume the High E saddle regularly doesnt need much more foreward movement than where you placed it, correct?

Ah, yes, I missed that on the Stewmac page, you're right that doesn't apply to saddles as a reference.

If I am unsure about compensation I just make a quick test jig with a scrap of wood, find it quicker and more reliable then transferring numbers from calculator to plan. Just a tuner, two cm or so tall triangular bits of hardwood for bridge and nut and a almost any scrap of wood which has enough extra length for the tuner and a nail to serve as anchor.

That said, I would not bother for most guitars tuned E to E with normal guages. 11 and 12s I would generally consider normal, but there are some sets of 12s out there with rather hefty 6ths.

I didnt quite understand the jig, do you place the triangular hardwood flat on the body, place the bridge on top and move it back and forth to find where it intonates best? how do you secure the bridge to the body and the string ball ends? or do you clamp the triangular piece behind the bridge as an anchor for the string ball ends? Sorry, I kept trying the visual it, but couldn't make it out. Could you elaborate a bit on that?

[oid]

I didnt quite understand the jig,

Well, that is because I did not explain it very well! I was killing a slack few minutes at work typing on the phone and I seem to have assumed you have all the same knowledge that I have.

To anchor the string just stick a finishing nail in the board to slip the hole in the the ball end on, or drill a hole to slip the string through, use a washer for the ball end to bear against if it is a softwood, or improvise what ever suits your materials at hand, no need to be fancy. You got a pair or hardwood triangles to act as a bridge and nut, space them at your scale length, no glue needed as long as break angle is not severe, string tension will hold them in place. And the part I skipped, something to fret against stuck in the middle, anything round/pointy and hard will do, I just used and x-acto knife handle held fast with a c-clamp, only real requirement is the string height off of it needs to be more or less your 12th fret action, so adjust the bridge/nut or select a fret to suit. You intonate by tapping the bridge with a small hammer to move it forward or backwards. I guess the ease of doing this is fairly dependent on what your scrap pile and junk box look like.

But as I said before, I would not bother for 11s or 12s for E to E tuning on a standard scale lengths, just mount the bridge so design scale length meets the midpoint of the saddles travel, especially for a strat bridge which has a fair range of adjustment.

[jasburbak]

I didnt quite understand the jig,

Well, that is because I did not explain it very well! I was killing a slack few minutes at work typing on the phone and I seem to have assumed you have all the same knowledge that I have.

To anchor the string just......................................................... pile and junk box look like.

But as I said before, I would not bother for 11s or 12s for E to E tuning on a standard scale lengths, just mount the bridge so design scale length meets the midpoint of the saddles travel, especially for a strat bridge which has a fair range of adjustment.

Ah, now I understand! Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation- I'm going to keep that jig idea for when I need it for more open tuning experimental builds. In the meanwhile, I'll take the advice and set it up the standard way, and save myself some time from building yet another jig