Help me make my Super-Sonic sound great!

[King Volcano]

Hey everyone,

I got this super-sonic a long way back off my local craigslist. It's been a long time coming to this point, but I'm still not there yet with the sound.

Mods I've done are the new Gotoh white button tuners. Had to get the lefty ones shipped from Japan (thanks to Josh of Japarts.ca in case anyone is interested). Also got a pickguard from Pickgaurdian and a PAF sized wide range pickup from Curtis Novak along with his STR-TB which is a tele bridge pickup made to fit under a strat cover.

My idea with the pickups was to make Telecaster 72 custom inspired super-sonic, but I'm not happy with the sound. Though to be honest I think that's my fault because I don't know what to do with the pots or resistors. I had my friend help me with the soldering. He had some 1meg and 250k pots, but they didn't fit in the control plate, so both pickups are just attached to the stock mini 500k pot. I know you are probably thinking, "well duh it doesn't sound right!" and that's where I need help!

Here is where I need help. As it is, the middle position sounds pretty good, but the bridge is really weak sounding, not twangy like you would expect a tele bridge pickup to sound. The neck pickup on the other hand is so loud and is really difficult to not make it distort. It's dirty, but not in a good way. Of course you are gonna have some balancing issues whenever you put a single coil and humbucker together, but I have the feeling they could sound better with the right pots and resistors or caps. Also, one extra challenge, I really want to do this with only one volume knob. I really can't stand having knobs right next to the bridge. I always end up hitting them and they make strumming while palm muting really hard! Maybe I am just a bad guitar player, but I really like just having that sole volume knob. I always have the tone all the way rolled up anyway.

Anyway! I know this is a long post, but if anyone has some advice I would really appreciate it! Pics of my guitar below.


album upload

album upload

[hpr_hpr]

OK you have exactly the reverse of what is usually recommended with the highest output pickup in the positions were it get's the most signal from the strings thus your mention of an 'unbalanced setup'.

OK before we get to what you CAN do, first a question, with the bridge selected & the volume 'wide' open can you change the settings on your amp so that it DOES twang like you want . . . if not than that twang is just not there in the signal and no pot / cap / resistor can really put it there (passive electronics are subtractive, they can't ADD anything not there already).

[King Volcano]

OK before we get to what you CAN do, first a question, with the bridge selected & the volume 'wide' open can you change the settings on your amp so that it DOES twang like you want . . . if not than that twang is just not there in the signal and no pot / cap / resistor can really put it there (passive electronics are subtractive, they can't ADD anything not there already).

Thanks for your reply! To answer your question... sort of... I think. I can't exactly answer because I don't have an amp I can use at the moment. Last time I used it with an amp was when my friend helped me out. I have been going directly into an audio interface to record. I know that's probably part of my problem right there, but still, I use my Jaguar like this and it sounds great.

You mentioned that electronics are substractive, that's why you use lower values with single coils and higher values with humbuckers right? So, a traditional wiring for a tele has the pickups going into one 250k volume pot and then another 250k tone pot. That then goes through a cap and resistor somewhere right? I'm not sure how the last part works, but I'm going off of diagrams of telecaster wiring and what people have told me. The diagram I am referring to is below.

What I was thinking when we put the bridge pickup through just one 500k pot was "250 + 250 = 500, so the"bridge should should like a tele then." But here are my questions: does this really work like that? Basically, if you are only going to use one volume pot, do you need to make any changes like adding together the missing value? And also, what are that cap and resistor doing exactly? Are they even significant?

Finally a tele custom on the other hand has each pickup go through a pair of 500k pots, and then somewhere in there are two 022uf capacitors. Or at least that's what I understand from wiring kits being sold online. So anyway, you can imagine why I am a little confused and not sure how to wire this thing, especially if I am trying to use just one pot.

[Shadoweclipse13]

I'm also not sure that's actually a Tele bridge pickup. Tele bridge pickups usually don't have pickup covers, and also generally have 3 mounting screws. I think that's a Strat bridge pickup, which could partially explain the weak bridge sound with good middle position.

[Embenny]

I'm also not sure that's actually a Tele bridge pickup. Tele bridge pickups usually don't have pickup covers, and also generally have 3 mounting screws. I think that's a Strat bridge pickup, which could partially explain the weak bridge sound with good middle position.

He said it's the Novak Tele-for-strat pickup. It's got a copper plated steel baseplate and looks like a strat pickup. Similar idea to the Duncan Twang Banger.

[King Volcano]

I'm also not sure that's actually a Tele bridge pickup. Tele bridge pickups usually don't have pickup covers, and also generally have 3 mounting screws. I think that's a Strat bridge pickup, which could partially explain the weak bridge sound with good middle position.

He said it's the Novak Tele-for-strat pickup. It's got a copper plated steel baseplate and looks like a strat pickup. Similar idea to the Duncan Twang Banger.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Here's a link: http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/str-tb.shtml

[Shadoweclipse13]

My bad! I missed that.

[King Volcano]

My bad! I missed that.

No prob! It's a deceptive pickup.

Anyway, so I looked up some wiring for SH (or HS, is there a difference?) telecasters and found this:
http://hockeywithoutpropriety.com/telec ... rings.html#

It looks like I could do something like this, but the diagram has no values for the pots or resistors or caps, which is where I am at a loss of what to do! Also, still not sure what to do about using only one pot.

[hpr_hpr]

You mentioned that electronics are substractive, that's why you use lower values with single coils and higher values with humbuckers right? So, a traditional wiring for a tele has the pickups going into one 250k volume pot and then another 250k tone pot. That then goes through a cap and resistor somewhere right? I'm not sure how the last part works, but I'm going off of diagrams of telecaster wiring and what people have told me. The diagram I am referring to is below.

What I was thinking when we put the bridge pickup through just one 500k pot was "250 + 250 = 500, so the"bridge should should like a tele then." But here are my questions: does this really work like that? Basically, if you are only going to use one volume pot, do you need to make any changes like adding together the missing value? And also, what are that cap and resistor doing exactly? Are they even significant?

Finally a tele custom on the other hand has each pickup go through a pair of 500k pots, and then somewhere in there are two 022uf capacitors. Or at least that's what I understand from wiring kits being sold online. So anyway, you can imagine why I am a little confused and not sure how to wire this thing, especially if I am trying to use just one pot.

1. Not quite ... part of the reason for the lower values for the pots with single coils (especially for the tone pot) is to take a little bit of the high frequencies off even when the pot is at Max resistance. For the same reason you use a 'bigger' cap which has a lower frequency cutoff which (to your ears) takes off just that bit more of the high end.

2. A pot(entiometer) is a variable resistor.

3. No it doesn't work quite like that ... it's not quite that easy.

Think of things this way to start with; a cap is a high (frequency) pass filter, and the larger the value the lower the frequency cutoff ... a pot is like a restriction, the higher it's set the harder it is for the signal to pass through ... so a classic tone circuit with a pot followed by a cap to ground basically shunts part of the signal with frequencies higher than the cutoff to ground and so removes them from the signal going to the amp ... a volume pot just shunts part of the signal to ground thereby reducing the total AMOUNT of signal going to the amp but does not favor any particular frequency while doing that .... .... .... that's the ideal theoretical case's. In practice things are more complicated with all the bits and pieces - and that includes the pickups - interacting in (frequently non linear) ways to change various things when the pots are changed ... the MOST obvious way is when you dial down the volume on a guitar without a treble bleed circuit the tone immediately gets a bit less bright ... ... ... in a simplistic way you can think of it like this, because it's now slightly harder for the signal to get to the amp (volume down) it's gotten - relatively - slightly easier for the high frequencies to 'leave the signal' via the tone pot and thus the tone gets a bit darker when you turn down the volume.
In reality the pickups / pots (resistors) / caps all work together to form a network that has distinct resonance peaks and filter values depending on the actual inductance / resistance / capacitance of all of the components at any time ... which is devilishly hard to model for anything with more than 3 or 4 real life components.

Anyway ... 2 things to try. FIRST put in a 250 kOhm volume pot and then add a simple treble bleed (wire a 1200pF cap across the input and output of the volume pot) and do some reading on treble bleed circuits ... the bottom schematic has one ... this may give you some more 'twang' out of that bridge PU ... after the reading you can experiment with a ~100 - 150 kOhm resistor parallel to the cap ... given that you want more 'twang' I don't think a resistor in series with the cap is what you want. To tone down the signal from the humbucker in the neck position ... well that's a harder Q ... part of it kinda depends on how much louder it sounds ... I would try a 100KOhm trim pot in series with the signal before it jig's the pickup switch. A trim pot is a small pot that you can adjust with a screwdriver to were you want/need it and then forget about, wire it like a volume pot (input on left leg / wiper to switch / right leg to ground) set it to min resistance and adjust in up untill you like the relative volumes of bridge & neck. YMMV with this I've never done it - or heard anyone else doing it - but at least electrically it seems a sound solution.

Final note the top schematic is the pre CBS wiring for a tele I believe ... the original circuit from Leo Fender ... it's NOT what you are after ... Google original fender telecaster broadcaster circuit and do some reading and you'll see why ...

[Deed_Poll]

Hpr is correct, you are definitely going to want a treble bleed circuit... But in my opinion you want it on the neck pickup. It's the bass frequencies that are distorting the signal and not letting the treble character through.

I have almost the exact same pickups on my Customaster, a Novak WRHB in the neck and a Novak Tele HC in the bridge.

I asked for an underwound neck pickup on mine. But the bridge pickup is probably quite similar, despite mine being a 3+3 configuration, since they will both be wound deeper and taller than a true Tele bridge pickup. This is usually going to sound a bit thinner and more nasal in tone than a shallow, broad pickup - think of the difference between a Jaguar pickup and a Jazzmaster pickup, only less so.

How many wires does your WRHB have coming out of it? One option might be to put the pickup in parallel. This would give it much more of a single coil flavour. I ordered mine this way just in case I couldn't get what I wanted as far as pickup balance... But actually, with the treble bleed, I can get it to balance beautifully.

As far as getting it all to work with one knob, I really can't help you there! Especially if the cavity is tight on space, that will mean even a concentric setup won't work for you.

However, if I could only have one knob on my Customaster, it would be the neck volume. Set the amp to the bridge pickup and have that running straight to the jack, then switch to neck position and dial that in with the knob. Maybe try some different caps or something between the bridge pickup and jack? That might attenuate the top end... I'm sure Jason or Hpr can help you with that! Find a value you like and stick with it

[Shadoweclipse13]

I'm sure Jason or Hpr can help you with that! Find a value you like and stick with it

Between hpr hpr and myself, we can definitely figure something out I think. I've only been casually reading the thread. If it's slow at work tonight, I'll read a bit more in depth.

[hpr_hpr]

... I would try a 100KOhm trim pot in series with the signal before it jig's the pickup switch.

Deed_Poll may have a point . . . you probably want a treble bleed cap over this trim pot as well/

[hpr_hpr]

My bad! I missed that.

No prob! It's a deceptive pickup.

Anyway, so I looked up some wiring for SH (or HS, is there a difference?) telecasters and found this:
http://hockeywithoutpropriety.com/telec ... rings.html#

It looks like I could do something like this, but the diagram has no values for the pots or resistors or caps, which is where I am at a loss of what to do! Also, still not sure what to do about using only one pot.

That's the basic wiring with a five way lever switch . . . as good as it goes but only works if the pickups are reasonably balanced to begin with and as I understand it that's the problem here so it'll need to 'tweaks' ... the 'standard' values for that diagram would be 250kOhm tone, 250 to 1 meg volume and a 0.022 to 0.047 uF capacitor. It does require a 5 wire lead on the humbucker though . . . if you want to loose the tone pot my suggestion would be to wire a 250k 1/4 watt carbon film resistor in series with a 0.022 uF cap and put that in it's place (that's between the left leg of the volume pot & GND) to start with . . . you may want to 'tweak' the resistor and/or cap value after you hear what it sounds like

[King Volcano]

Wow! So many detailed and helpful responses. I'll look into getting the parts for the various suggestions. The five way switch may not work, I only have one wire coming out of my humbucker. Here's pics of how it's currently wired.

[hpr_hpr]

OK . . . . . .

I get the wiring on the lower control plate . . . . (what's with the bolt though) . . . BUT . . . is that blackish part on the wire to the Novak connected to the hum bucker or just taped there, I hope so because that seems to be the signal . . . I'm assuming the other wire on the Novak is connected to the sleeve at of the hum bucker wire at the switch?? And I seem to be missing a ground wire . . . but that may be an optical problem with a black wire on a black background . . . .

OK verification time:

Neck hum bucker has a single lead which is shielded (i.e. no coil switching possible there . . . at least not without a wiring rebuild) right?

Bridge Single has 3 leads, two white, one of which is connected to the base and one black going through a hole in the base with the 2nd white correct?

EDIT:
We're in reasonable shape I think even if it is a bit of a rats nest . . . can't get the hum bucker to do a single coil or easily rewire it to have the coils parallel so yes the 5 way switch option is out but we DO have the option to phase switch the bridge pickup. If you're really adventurous you could get one of these http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Elec ... witch.html. I don't know we could use ALL 6 options but . . . it would allow: 1. neck, 2. bridge, 3. parallel, 4. series, 5.neck throttled + bridge series, 6.neck throttled + bridge parallel . . . OK we can use all 6 . . . not sure if we could wire it all but . . . . . . they are pretty pricy though . . .

Now this is a bit of an experiment as I've never actually done this to a guitar myself, having no need, but electrically speaking it should work just fine.

I'm assuming you are in the US . . . get a treble bleed kit (with individual components) off Amazon with 0.0022uf (2200pf) - or 0.001 uf (10000pf) - capacitors (get 2 or 3 of the capacitors, two to use & one more if you think you may mess up a soldering job), if you have the choice go for the 2200 pF. Also if you don't have free shipping from Amazon ... order a 100K Ohm Trimpot (or 2) - they are //probably// a blue square thingy with a round knob OR philips/slotted head on top and get some hookup wire, probably the cloth covered kind as you already have that in the guitar- . . . finally you may want/need some 100 - 150k Ohm resistors, these should come with the treble bleed kit.

Once you have that in hand solder it (the capacitor that is) between the wiper (middle leg) and the leg with the lead to the switch on the volume pot . . . this SHOULD get you some more 'twang' when you roll off the volume.

Then the fun starts . . . unsolder the lead of the hum bucker from the switch, and solder this to the left leg of the trimpot, solder the middle leg to a short piece of hookup wire the other end goes to the switch were the hum bucker was connected originally. Then wire one of those new caps to the same two legs. Finally the right leg gets connected to the shielding of the hum bucker wire either directly or with another short piece of hookup wire. Now plug in the guitar turn the trim pot all the way left and GENTLY tap the hum bucker with a small screwdriver (the smaller the better) you should hear the taps quite loudly . . . if not turn the trim pot all the way right and tap again . . . where you hear the tap loudest is the OPEN setting on the pot (min resistance) . . . for now turn it down about 50%, reassemble every thing and see how you like the balance between the neck and bridge, if the neck is to loud, turn the trimpot down down a bit further till you get were you want it . . . and the opposite also applies of course . . . .

make sure you do not short anything to ground . . . some heat shrink tubing may come in handy here . . .