Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:06 am

That's incredible. You should write a legitimate article on this. You seem to know a ton about them!
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http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:07 am

Added an updated schematic for smjenkins.
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http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:13 pm

Just wanted to let everyone know (weird, since this isn't a job, I know), but I'll be on vacation between 8/2 and 8/11. Won't be doing any schematics during that time. If you've got something you'd like done before then, please let me know beforehand!
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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by epizootics » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:43 pm

Damn! You're taking a vacation? Whatever happened to lifelong dedication to unpaid jobs? ::) :whistle:

OK then, I'll jump on the opportunity. I'm making a new pickguard and an electronics update for a friend. The guitar is a Frankenstein made of all sorts of weird bits and bobs, but he wants me to simplify it down to a two-pickup setup. He asked me to replace the strat selector for a three-way switch that would work like that:

-(1) Neck
-(2) NOTHING
-(3) Bridge

Now, I know there are ON-OFF-ON SPDT switches out there, but they would leave the pickup circuit open and buzz out when he wants to do the kill-switch thing. What would be the easiest way to do this? I am absolutely clueless when it comes to wiring :)

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Blomberg » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:37 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:12 am
What'd be cool would be to have one switch be coil-splitting (south, both, north) and the other be series-parallel or phase, with cocked wah on the end... The second switch might be tricky, but it's possible. I've been coming up with funky 3-way Mustang slider schematics lately since they can be tricky, but have so much potential with 8 lugs over 6...
I've been looking through the thread to find something close to what I want to do, since I don't even know if it's possible. This one sounds the closest, but still not quite there (also, you probably meant series/parallel between the pickups, I'm not going for that).

I'm toying with the idea of putting a P-Rail in the bridge of my Mustang (keeping the stock neck single coil).
I want all 4 standard options (P-90/Series/Parallel/Rail) and ideally also to transplant a feature from its current wiring scheme: Bridge pickup in series, but reversed (out-of-phase with the neck pickup).

So my current thinking is:

Mustang switch 1: P-90 / both / rail
Mustang switch 2: parallel / series / series reverse
Both switches pertaining to only the bridge pickup

and then I'd add a JM style toggle switch as a pickup selector.

Does this sound possible at all?
Also, would it be practical or would there be problems with, say, the series/parallel modes interfering with the circuit when the other switch is in single coil mode? I don't have a deep enough understanding of switching to wrap my head around this :wacko:

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Rgand » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:56 am

Blomberg wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:37 am
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:12 am
What'd be cool would be to have one switch be coil-splitting (south, both, north) and the other be series-parallel or phase, with cocked wah on the end... The second switch might be tricky, but it's possible. I've been coming up with funky 3-way Mustang slider schematics lately since they can be tricky, but have so much potential with 8 lugs over 6...
I've been looking through the thread to find something close to what I want to do, since I don't even know if it's possible. This one sounds the closest, but still not quite there (also, you probably meant series/parallel between the pickups, I'm not going for that).

I'm toying with the idea of putting a P-Rail in the bridge of my Mustang (keeping the stock neck single coil).
I want all 4 standard options (P-90/Series/Parallel/Rail) and ideally also to transplant a feature from its current wiring scheme: Bridge pickup in series, but reversed (out-of-phase with the neck pickup).

So my current thinking is:

Mustang switch 1: P-90 / both / rail
Mustang switch 2: parallel / series / series reverse
Both switches pertaining to only the bridge pickup

and then I'd add a JM style toggle switch as a pickup selector.

Does this sound possible at all?
Also, would it be practical or would there be problems with, say, the series/parallel modes interfering with the circuit when the other switch is in single coil mode? I don't have a deep enough understanding of switching to wrap my head around this :wacko:

Here is the way I wired my P-rails with a 3-way selector. Instead of push/pull pots, I used sliders for the P-rails switching. I also added a bass bleed pot to the SD diagram.

Image

And here's how it looks.

Image

Hopefully you can use some of this for your one P-rail.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:59 pm

epizootics wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:43 pm
Damn! You're taking a vacation? Whatever happened to lifelong dedication to unpaid jobs? ::) :whistle:

OK then, I'll jump on the opportunity. I'm making a new pickguard and an electronics update for a friend. The guitar is a Frankenstein made of all sorts of weird bits and bobs, but he wants me to simplify it down to a two-pickup setup. He asked me to replace the strat selector for a three-way switch that would work like that:

-(1) Neck
-(2) NOTHING
-(3) Bridge

Now, I know there are ON-OFF-ON SPDT switches out there, but they would leave the pickup circuit open and buzz out when he wants to do the kill-switch thing. What would be the easiest way to do this? I am absolutely clueless when it comes to wiring :)
Haha, right? You'd never guess that I was intending to work for pay and have a life outside of work, not according to my bosses anyway.

Interesting setup. I don't think it would be possible to do with a 3-way toggle-type switch. I think you might be able to do it with a blade switch, but honestly, the simplest way to do it would be with a rotary switch. The open circuit buzz comes from when you drop the hot wire somewhere between the pickups and the output jack. I found this on Guitarelectronics.com years ago, and I've used it in my own guitars a few times. It works very quietly. The trick is to short the hot and the ground from the output jack together.
Image

We can definitely try to figure it out with specific switches, but I do think rotary would be your best bet. Simple to figure out, simple to wire, simple to use. The only other thing you could do that would require little other modifications, is to put the kill-switch on a push-pull pot (no output signal in push position personally, though either would work fine).

Blomberg wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:37 am
I'm toying with the idea of putting a P-Rail in the bridge of my Mustang (keeping the stock neck single coil). I want all 4 standard options (P-90/Series/Parallel/Rail) and ideally also to transplant a feature from its current wiring scheme: Bridge pickup in series, but reversed (out-of-phase with the neck pickup).

So my current thinking is:

Mustang switch 1: P-90 / both / rail
Mustang switch 2: parallel / series / series reverse
Both switches pertaining to only the bridge pickup

and then I'd add a JM style toggle switch as a pickup selector.

Does this sound possible at all?
Also, would it be practical or would there be problems with, say, the series/parallel modes interfering with the circuit when the other switch is in single coil mode? I don't have a deep enough understanding of switching to wrap my head around this :wacko:
Rgand's suggestion is a good one, and easy to do with standalone switches instead of push-pulls if you're not wanting that. One thing I'll say is that having series P-Rails and parallel P-Rails is cool, but there isn't a ton of difference between the two, except maybe a little more output strength (volume) in series.

The first switch would be easy to do (P-Rails coil-tapping), but the second one might not be possible. You could definitely make a Mustang/DP3T slider switch into either a parallel-series switch or a out-of-phase switch, but getting them both on there might not be possible. The easiest thing to do would honestly be a rotary switch for the whole P-Rails thing. You'd only be looking for 4 positions correct? P-90, both parallel in-phase, series out-of-phase, rail?
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Blomberg » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:59 pm
Rgand's suggestion is a good one, and easy to do with standalone switches instead of push-pulls if you're not wanting that. One thing I'll say is that having series P-Rails and parallel P-Rails is cool, but there isn't a ton of difference between the two, except maybe a little more output strength (volume) in series.

The first switch would be easy to do (P-Rails coil-tapping), but the second one might not be possible. You could definitely make a Mustang/DP3T slider switch into either a parallel-series switch or a out-of-phase switch, but getting them both on there might not be possible. The easiest thing to do would honestly be a rotary switch for the whole P-Rails thing. You'd only be looking for 4 positions correct? P-90, both parallel in-phase, series out-of-phase, rail?
I have to respectfully disagree about the parallel and series sounding the same, at least in the case of the strat copy I'm using for testing them. If anything, the parallel mode sounds closer to the P90 on its own, but still fuller and "wider". The series is way darker and "humbucker'y". I did flip the P-Rail around, though, so maybe that's the reason :)

If I could have my cake and eat it too, I'd have P90 / Series / Series reverse / Parallel / Rail, so I guess I'd need 5 positions. I'm not married to the reverse phase option, but it sounds cool and would be a nice nod to the previous owner, so maybe just 4.
I've been looking through industry sites to see if I could find a 4 or 5 way switch that has the mounting width of the Mustang switches, but no luck so far.

I did consider just emulating the Triple-shot with a couple of Jaguar sliders (similar to Rgand's method), but I just got a custom pickguard with the full Mustang size holes.
A thought that did occur to me, though: Can you emulate the Triple-shot/Rgand scheme with two Mustang DP3T switches, but use the remaining (middle?) positions for something useful?

Push-pull pots are certainly also an option, but I'm honestly not a huge fan of them, at least for this application.
It would save me having to rout for a pickup selector, though, which is worth considering.

Maybe I'll just have to try and just throw the P-Rail in there with some loose wires and see what sounds good and what I can rule out. The Stang does sound acoustically very different from my strat copy, so my strat test rig might be useless.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:15 pm

Blomberg wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am
I have to respectfully disagree about the parallel and series sounding the same, at least in the case of the strat copy I'm using for testing them. If anything, the parallel mode sounds closer to the P90 on its own, but still fuller and "wider". The series is way darker and "humbucker'y". I did flip the P-Rail around, though, so maybe that's the reason :)
I would bet that using the P-Rails would make the most difference for that. Standard humbuckers (or Wide-Range Humbuckers as I'm used to) in series vs parallel don't sound terribly different to my ears to justify having both. If it sounds different with the P-Rails though, that's cool. We can try to figure out some switching system for it.
Blomberg wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am
If I could have my cake and eat it too, I'd have P90 / Series / Series reverse / Parallel / Rail, so I guess I'd need 5 positions. I'm not married to the reverse phase option, but it sounds cool and would be a nice nod to the previous owner, so maybe just 4.
I've been looking through industry sites to see if I could find a 4 or 5 way switch that has the mounting width of the Mustang switches, but no luck so far.
You're gonna have a hard time trying to find sliders with that many lugs on them. I don't know the space you have to work with (you said Strat, so I'm assuming you're installing this on there?), but personally, I think it would be "simplest" to do the P-90 / series / parallel / rail on a rotary, with the series-reverse added to a push-pull or separate switch.
Blomberg wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am
I did consider just emulating the Triple-shot with a couple of Jaguar sliders (similar to Rgand's method), but I just got a custom pickguard with the full Mustang size holes.
A thought that did occur to me, though: Can you emulate the Triple-shot/Rgand scheme with two Mustang DP3T switches, but use the remaining (middle?) positions for something useful?

Push-pull pots are certainly also an option, but I'm honestly not a huge fan of them, at least for this application.
It would save me having to rout for a pickup selector, though, which is worth considering.

Maybe I'll just have to try and just throw the P-Rail in there with some loose wires and see what sounds good and what I can rule out. The Stang does sound acoustically very different from my strat copy, so my strat test rig might be useless.
What holes do you have to work with beyond the Mustang-switch holes? Wanting just a master volume and master tone? I know you mentioned a 3-way toggle-type pickup selector.
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Blomberg » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:29 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:15 pm
Blomberg wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am
Strat/Mustang confusion
What holes do you have to work with beyond the Mustang-switch holes? Wanting just a master volume and master tone? I know you mentioned a 3-way toggle-type pickup selector.
Currently I have a Strat copy set up with a neck single coil and the P-rail in the bridge to emulate the (eventual) Mustang pickup configuration, along with a couple of on/on switches to emulate Triple-shot switching functionality (so I can hear all the combinations). This setup is purely for testing out the P-rail (+ switching), since I have no prior experience with it. It's real ugly and temporary :)

The end goal is putting the bridge P-Rail into a vintage Mustang, also with a neck single coil, once I figure out a good switching scheme.
It has the two regular Mustang switch routs, master volume and master tone.
I might rout a new hole for a JM-style toggle switch (or maybe a rotary, depending on what makes the most sense) in the lower bout, if needed.
And before people kill me, it's not a pristine vintage body. It's previously been refinished, humbucker-routed and has some further routing nastiness

I'd like to stay as close to the standard configuration (two Mustang switches) as possible, but I also do like the look of the Duo Sonic/Bullet Mustang/etc lower bout toggle switch (possibly a rotary, if it'll fit in that position).

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Rgand » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:31 am

What about an SD Triple shot mounting ring for the P-rail and standard Mustang switching?

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Blomberg » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:49 am

Rgand wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:31 am
What about an SD Triple shot mounting ring for the P-rail and standard Mustang switching?
Honestly I'm not a huge fan of the triple shots.
One, the aesthetics of a mounting ring on top of a plastic pickguard rubs me the wrong way.
Two, never seen/tried one in real life, but those switches look very tiny.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Rgand » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:47 pm

Blomberg wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:49 am
Rgand wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:31 am
What about an SD Triple shot mounting ring for the P-rail and standard Mustang switching?
Honestly I'm not a huge fan of the triple shots.
One, the aesthetics of a mounting ring on top of a plastic pickguard rubs me the wrong way.
Two, never seen/tried one in real life, but those switches look very tiny.
Yeah, I can see that. In fact, I went with the slide switches on my JM for much the same reason. It's just another option.

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:03 pm

Blomberg wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:29 pm
Currently I have a Strat copy set up with a neck single coil and the P-rail in the bridge to emulate the (eventual) Mustang pickup configuration, along with a couple of on/on switches to emulate Triple-shot switching functionality (so I can hear all the combinations). This setup is purely for testing out the P-rail (+ switching), since I have no prior experience with it. It's real ugly and temporary :)

The end goal is putting the bridge P-Rail into a vintage Mustang, also with a neck single coil, once I figure out a good switching scheme.
It has the two regular Mustang switch routs, master volume and master tone.
I might rout a new hole for a JM-style toggle switch (or maybe a rotary, depending on what makes the most sense) in the lower bout, if needed.
And before people kill me, it's not a pristine vintage body. It's previously been refinished, humbucker-routed and has some further routing nastiness

I'd like to stay as close to the standard configuration (two Mustang switches) as possible, but I also do like the look of the Duo Sonic/Bullet Mustang/etc lower bout toggle switch (possibly a rotary, if it'll fit in that position).
Ok cool. I do think we can figure out something. I do still feel that a rotary would be the best option, but we can definitely use the upper switches for some stuff too. I will start to tackle this properly after I'm off vacation. If you think of anything (changes, ideas, etc.), let me know.
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by epizootics » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:06 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:59 pm
Haha, right? You'd never guess that I was intending to work for pay and have a life outside of work, not according to my bosses anyway.

Interesting setup. I don't think it would be possible to do with a 3-way toggle-type switch. I think you might be able to do it with a blade switch, but honestly, the simplest way to do it would be with a rotary switch. The open circuit buzz comes from when you drop the hot wire somewhere between the pickups and the output jack. I found this on Guitarelectronics.com years ago, and I've used it in my own guitars a few times. It works very quietly. The trick is to short the hot and the ground from the output jack together.
Image

We can definitely try to figure it out with specific switches, but I do think rotary would be your best bet. Simple to figure out, simple to wire, simple to use. The only other thing you could do that would require little other modifications, is to put the kill-switch on a push-pull pot (no output signal in push position personally, though either would work fine).
Thanks a lot! I had never looked at rotary switches, they open up a whole new world of bizarre wiring...I'm still trying to wrap my head around the possibilities.

I had a chat with my friend yesterday, he decided to go with a two-toggle setup in the end. He gigs and lot and he's very specific about the ergonomics of his guitar. He said the normally open push button didn't work for him because the idea of pressing down to kill the sound felt too counter-intuitive. I just need to find the heaviest duty SPDT switch from my pile of crap (ie. the 'OLD ELECTRONICS SAVED FOR LATER') .

Have fun on holidays!

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