Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

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Ozone7
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Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by Ozone7 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:19 pm

Hi everyone. New here so hello and sorry in advance if I miss anything obvious or say anything silly.

I'm planning an Inca Silver Jaguar to go with the '96MIJ 9.5 radius neck I picked up recently.
I hope to be having the body cut and painted by Rexter.
And I'm trying to source some Kinman pickups.
Bridge will be Staytrem, as will trem arm.

But I'm trying to make sure I get the other components correct and from the best source as I'm in the UK.
I should say that I intend to end up with an amended J Marr concept. I've got a set of JM plates coming from the US.
So that will mean a 4-way switch (Bridge/Neck/Series/Parallel).
Plus two switches on the upper horn as per the JM Jag, but with one as a hi-pass for the Series, and one as a phase reverse (rather than the extra strangle)

As the pickups will be Kinman, I don't think I need to worry about polarity, and string height shouldn't be a problem as magnetic field is low.

So I think I still need:
A US trem base 005 4466 049
2 x slide switches
2 x 250k short solid shaft no load pots (250k is advised for the Kinmans) Fender 099-0833-000. These are .375" Is that right? Should they be 1/4"?
2 x bridge thimbles
2 x black skirted knobs 001 9455 049
Plus screws for scratchplate. Don't know if any come with the vibrato.
Does all the above sound right? Any recommendations for UK sourcing?

And, for anyone who has an Inca Silver guitar, is off-white or parchment a better look (for scratchplate and trem tip)? Any photos would be very appreciated.

And do feel free to chime in with any advice or thoughts/warnings.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by N0_Camping4U » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:04 pm

Can't help too much. I'm a US dude. But! I have a MJT refinished Inca Silver Jaguar build! I need to get pics going, I've got an instrument being completed for my by someone on here and I want to get a group shot of everyone.

I have a white pickguard on mine, but I also own a parchment / off white and have been meaning to switch them. I think the white looks good but the parchment looks better.
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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by JVG » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:14 pm

Hi there,

I have mint on my Inca Silver Bass VI replica, and I think it looks pretty snazzy (even though it looks more like parchment in this pic) :)

Image

Cheers!
J.

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by jdr1014 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:32 pm

I have an AVRI 57 Strat in Inca Silver. It originally came with a stark white single ply pickguard, which is vintage - correct. Just looked too "cold"/plain to me so I replaced it (and trem cover) with parchment single ply. While technically not "correct", I like the look much better.

On an Inca Silver Jaguar, I think 3 ply is the correct choice, but I would probably choose:
1)mint
2)parchment
3)white

edit: I think this will be a great looking Jaguar and am anxious to see pix when completed :)

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:43 pm

Purely personal preference here but I'd make parchment or mint my first choice. Something about the subtle clash of white covers & off-white guard makes all the difference.

An excellent choice of custom colour, by the way.
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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by timtam » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:06 pm

So it's basically a combination Marr / Am Pro circuit. About the only thing not on your list is the 56k resistor, which is in the Marr circuit. People still speculate on what it does ... last thought was part of the strangle circuit. It's not in the Am Pro (which has no strangle) but is in vintage circuits (ie single strangle).

AVRI trems often come with screws (but without arm). If you prefer a screw-in arm you could go with the Am Pro trem, which seems to be Fender's premium trem now.
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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by Ozone7 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:55 pm

Thanks all. Anyone recommend UK stockist of parts?

Looks like parchment is preferred amongst this small cross section of offset society.

Would you say the scratchplate on this image is parchment or white? It's pretty much the look I'm after (apart from the bridge cover and switching).
Image

Also I can't decide between off white or cream for pickup covers. Gah! 50 shades of white!!

Bass looks lovely JVG. And No_Camping, if you have any pics, I'd love to see them - maybe a before and after?

Hey Timtam. Yes, it's an AmPro/Marr hybrid. I'm not sure about the 56k resistor as placement seems uncertain, and function isn't totally clear.
Given that the frequency response of the Kinmans is different to classic Jaguar pickups (which I am ok with as I'm easing into the model from Strat and Tele tones), I'm not even sure if it's necessary. I've been looking at wiring posts here and elsewhere and have to get my head around what I need to make the 4 positions work most effectively - specifically the phase and hi-pass switching. Also to deal with the Series position level imbalance.

I'll probably get a Staytrem arm with a classic Trem.

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by JVG » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:55 am

The guard on that Jag looks white to me, but could be a very subtle off-white. Whatever it is, it looks great so i think you can’t go wrong with white, parchment or mint (provident the mint is not too green).

As for pickup covers, i lean strongly towards parchment. Cream is too....creamy (for my tastes),

Cheers!
J.

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:39 pm

It looks mint to me (and the pickup covers look to be aged white, rather than plain).

Pictures like that remind me of how good a guitar with non-matching headstock looks. I think, generally, folk seem to favour a painted one but I love it when the headstock's plain. It just looks right to me.
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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by timtam » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:42 pm

Ozone7 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:55 pm
Hey Timtam. Yes, it's an AmPro/Marr hybrid. I'm not sure about the 56k resistor as placement seems uncertain, and function isn't totally clear.
Given that the frequency response of the Kinmans is different to classic Jaguar pickups (which I am ok with as I'm easing into the model from Strat and Tele tones), I'm not even sure if it's necessary. I've been looking at wiring posts here and elsewhere and have to get my head around what I need to make the 4 positions work most effectively - specifically the phase and hi-pass switching. Also to deal with the Series position level imbalance.
This is the Marr schematic. All you need to do is to omit/bridge across whichever of the bright/high pass/strangles you don't want, and add the phase DPDT in between the neck pickup (with pickup and claw grounds separated if not already done on Kinmans) and the input to the 4-way at B0. That's where it is on the Am Pro. You could omit the 56k and see how it goes ... but I lean towards it being part of the main strangle circuit.
Image
Drawn from wiring diagram ...
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... B_SISD.pdf

I am not sure what Kinman advises re pots .. possibly not 1meg.

4-way works this way ...
Image
https://guitarelectronics.com/4-way-gui ... k-grigsby/
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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by Ozone7 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:15 am

Amazing Timtam. Thanks for the schematic(s). Very useful.

Kinman have gone a little quiet now after a few questions. Don't know why. They also only export a standard option for each of the Jag variants via their UK distributor, so if I want no logo and a specific string spacing, I need to go direct (and them to respond..). Never mind. I'm sure that will get sorted.

Porky and JVG, I think I'll try and get off-white covers and try and find a white plate.

But... now I'm wondering about a couple of Marr body things (which I've noticed from some Stratosphere pics):

a: what is the third hole between the bridge thimbles? It's not on the Am Pro. Are US Jag scratch plates interchangeable or is the Marr model-specific because of this third hole - whatever it's for?

b: is there an advantage of the distinct separate routings in the body rather the more connected standard Jag routs? More wood = more mojo?

c: I think there are metal grounding plates on the Marr model, but this Am Pros doesn't even seem to have conductive paint in the cavities! Unless they're noiseless pickups I'd expect select AmPros to hum. Anyone with a Marr Jag or built one confirm the plates existence and know where to source these? I can't find them on the parts list, which is odd. Maybe I'm just more short sighted than I thought..

d: I have a radio mast in view of my window and RFI is a problem. So maximum shielding is going to be vital. I'm intending to line the cavities with copper foil (Stew-Mac stylee) but I also should top off the cage with something on the pickguard. Do they come standard with a metal/foil underside or is that again a Marr tweak? I think I've come across some vintage "under-pickguard-plates" but no idea if they'd be available and maybe there's a better method.

Body pics below. White Marr, Blue Am Pro 2018 and underside of Marr electronics - is that a metal plate?
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by JVG » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:10 pm

I can answer some of your questions...

1. As far as i know, the extra hole under the bridge serves no purpose at all, and therefore it doesn’t matter if your pickguard has that hole or not. Be wary about pickguards, however, as there are numerous subtle variations in the Jaguar design, which are not always obvious in pictures but may be very apparent when you try to fit one on your guitar.

2. The Marr body routes are actually the ‘traditional’ Jaguar routes, and the more connected style is a modern variant which is probably easier/quicker for the CNC machine that makes the body. I doubt anyone could tell the difference in sound between the two.

3. Interesting about the body shielding plates. The official wiring assembly notes the existence of shielding, but as you said it doesn’t list it in the parts. https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... B_SISD.pdf. I’m sure someone here with a Marr will know the answer!

4. Some guards come with shielding on the underside, some don’t. You can buy an official Jag pickguard shield (like the one in your picture), or make your own from shielding tape. Either way, it’s not a big problem to overcome.

Hope this helps with some of your issues!

J.

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by Bradley-Jazz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:05 am

As far as i know, the extra hole under the bridge serves no purpose at all, and therefore it doesn’t matter if your pickguard has that hole or not. Be wary about pickguards, however, as there are numerous subtle variations in the Jaguar design, which are not always obvious in pictures but may be very apparent when you try to fit one on your guitar.

2. The Marr body routes are actually the ‘traditional’ Jaguar routes, and the more connected style is a modern variant which is probably easier/quicker for the CNC machine that makes the body. I doubt anyone could tell the difference in sound between the two.<br/>

3. Interesting about the body shielding plates. The official wiring assembly notes the existence of shielding, but as you said it doesn’t list it in the parts. <URL url="https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... /Orig</URL> ... B_SISD.pdf. I’m sure someone here with a Marr will know the answer!

4. Some guards come with shielding on the underside, some don’t. You can buy an official Jag pickguard shield (like the one in your picture), or make your own from shielding tape. Either way, it’s not a big problem to overcome.
Hi!

1. The extra hole between the bridge posts is for the mute (which doesn't come on a Marr), so, unless you intend to fit a mute, it doesn't do anything.
3/4. My Marr has the shielding plates in the cavity and the rectangular metal shielding plate that sits under the scratchplate - it isn't stuck to the plate, just sandwiched in there (and grounded, or course).

My JM Jag is pretty quiet (certainly compared to my Jazzmaster), but it is still single coils at the end of the day, so interference/hum can remain an issue. The metal plates in the Marr are the traditional way of shielding, but I doubt they are better than well-installed and grounded copper tape. I actually found most benefit in reducing noise by getting a good isolated power supply for my pedals than by more and more shielding in my guitars (I didn't put any in the last Tele I built, and it's fine), but as always YMMV - you can always add more shielding later.

Good luck with it - exciting build!
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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by JVG » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:08 am

Ha yeah...i completely forgot about the mute! D’oh.

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Re: Help with UK Inca Silver Jaguar build

Post by Ozone7 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:56 am

Thanks Brad and JVG.

I won’t worry about the phantom mute hole then. And CNC ease of manufacture is almost certainly the reason for the difference in cavities.

So as I’m unlikely to find the Marr grounding plates anywhere, I’ll just copper paper it up the wazoo.

I’m a little unsure now how to go about scoring a pickguard. I was hoping it was a one size fits all, particularly as I’m building from parts. What are the differences and is there anything to look out for?

Thanks again!

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