Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Talk about modding or building your own guitar from scratch.
Post Reply
User avatar
Morrigæn
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Morrigæn » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:43 am

Nothing to hurry about, I'm thankful for every schematic, that could work, even if it would take weeks or longer. :)

User avatar
mbene085
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2869
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by mbene085 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 pm

Ok, so first off, thanks so much for posting all these schematics. They've been helping me to improve my wiring savvy. I've been trying to get better at designing switchig schemes - been using good old DPDTs for years but have had very little understanding of how to design switching schemes from the ground up.

I have this idea that I just cannot figure out how to accomplish.

I'd like to set up a guitar with three dual-coil pickups and three Mustang switches in a Neck/Middle/Bridge setup kind of like a Bass VI, except I'd like each switch to do series-parallel-off (up-middle-down). After that, it'd go to a Reverend/G&L 3-pot setup of volume/treble cut/bass cut.

Most similar Mustang switch diagrams I find online set up for series/coil split/off, with a split rather than parallel. I want to set this up with some G&L Z-coils though, so coil splitting isn't a particularly useful mode compared to parallel, since you only get 3 strings worth of output...

I did find this:
Image

...but there are two problems. One is that it goes Series/off/parallel, which will be harder to switch on the fly than Series/Parallel/off (where you can just push the switch all the way down to reliably shut off a pickup, rather than fiddling for the middle position). I just can't for the life of me figure out out to switch those two positions without messing something up.

The second problem is that the guy who posted the schematic went on to say that when he had the pickups "off" with this switch (it was two switches in a two pickup guitar), he was getting a low phantom output of mostly high end frequencies. I have no idea if this was due to the switching scheme itself, or some other issue with his wiring or pickups.

Does that wiring look ok to you, and would you be able to flip it around so that it goes Series-Parallel-Off? And how to wire three of these so that the three pickups combine in series with each other? That would be a huge help! I'm ok for integrating that into your Reverend tone stack you posted, but I'm confusing myself looking at this diagram and could use some bailing out!

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 6720
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:48 pm

Sorry to Wadeaminute, Morrigaen, and mbene085 for the super late reply and lack of schematics. Been a very rough month. Unless I have trouble figuring the last couple things out, I will have ALL 3 schematics/answers for you guys this coming weekend.
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 6720
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:58 pm

Mbene085, I don't know why I didn't think of this, but I just had an idea. You're right that with Z-coils, a coil split (3 lowest strings vs 3 highest strings) isn't particularly useful. UNLESS! you combine with other pickups split. If you did a switch that could split the coils (like treble coil, both coils, neck coil), you could mix-and-match. How cool would it sound to have the treble coil on the bridge pickup, and the bass coil on the neck pickup, or any other combination therein? The only issue with that is that you'd still need an off or pickup selector switch.

It's kinda like what I did with my Jag bass, but in that case, it was only one pickup, so I didn't need an off-switch for different coils. I'm still gonna try to finish figuring out what you originally asked for, but I just thought that was a neat idea.
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
Morrigæn
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Morrigæn » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:38 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:48 pm
Sorry to Wadeaminute, Morrigaen, and mbene085 for the super late reply and lack of schematics. Been a very rough month. Unless I have trouble figuring the last couple things out, I will have ALL 3 schematics/answers for you guys this coming weekend.
Don't worry! I hope your next month gets better/less rough and take all the time you need. In any case: Thanks.

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 6720
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:14 pm

Morrigæn wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:38 am
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:48 pm
Sorry to Wadeaminute, Morrigaen, and mbene085 for the super late reply and lack of schematics. Been a very rough month. Unless I have trouble figuring the last couple things out, I will have ALL 3 schematics/answers for you guys this coming weekend.
Don't worry! I hope your next month gets better/less rough and take all the time you need. In any case: Thanks.
Thanks man :) By the way, I sent you a PM with a quick question about what you're wanting for your schematic. Hit me up if you get a sec 8)
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
hpr_hpr
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:48 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by hpr_hpr » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:04 am

mbene085 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 pm
I did find this:
Image

...but there are two problems. One is that it goes Series/off/parallel, which will be harder to switch on the fly than Series/Parallel/off (where you can just push the switch all the way down to reliably shut off a pickup, rather than fiddling for the middle position). I just can't for the life of me figure out out to switch those two positions without messing something up.

The second problem is that the guy who posted the schematic went on to say that when he had the pickups "off" with this switch (it was two switches in a two pickup guitar), he was getting a low phantom output of mostly high end frequencies. I have no idea if this was due to the switching scheme itself, or some other issue with his wiring or pickups.
1. This schematic switches a single Humbucker series/off/parallel so if that's what you want to accomplish it'll work. If you want to adapt this as a pickup selector it needs some work . . . for one thing if ANY of the pickups are off there will be NO output if the other 2 are in series . . .

2. Series/Parallel/off can't be done with the 'normal' (on / off / on) switches you'd need a on/on/off switch for that, digikey probably has them . . . yep at least as a rocker or toggle but not as a slide.

3. The problem with the high frequency may be a bad switch or connection somewhere in the rest of the circuit . . . the problem is that the output (black) is always connected (hot), best practices have the pickup coil grounded and output disconnected when a pickup is off (electrically speaking that's the cleanest solution) . . . it's not absolutely necessary in guitar wiring (BUT with enough RF interference or a 'bad' connection somewhere it will be a 'problem' ... and a hard one to pin down at that). It's definitively not inherent in the circuit shown . . .

EDIT:

with 2 DPTT on/on/on switches and an SPDT switch I think you can have:
N & M in series or parallel
M & B in series or parallel
N & M & B in series or parallel
N & B parallel
and any singly

the one combination missing would be N & B in series . . . . . . (alternatively you can reroute the circuit so that you would be missing any other 2 in series)
When thinking about any advice given always ask yourself "why would (s)he know more than I do".

User avatar
hpr_hpr
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:48 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by hpr_hpr » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:44 pm

OK no guarantees but I think this would work:

Image
red is the hot connection, black is ground for each PU, green is to the output. Don't forget to ground switches (and PUs if they have a separate ground wire)

The switch positions would be better labeled off/out/send as the series setting sends the signal to the next PU in the chain and the middle position connects the signal to the output. So you can have all in series (any 2 @ down, 1 @ middle), all in parallel (all @ middle), any 2 in parallel (both @ middle, last one @ top), any single PU (2 @ top with the selected PU @ middle), any combination of 2 in series (1st switch @ bottom, 2nd @ middle) with the last in parallel (switch @ middle position) or off (switch @ top position). The signal runs from the neck, through the middle, to the bridge PUs and then back to the neck PU. A switch in the bottom position sends the signal to the next PU, the switch in the middle position send the signal after that PU to the output, and in the top position it stops the signal from propagating through the chain AND switches off that PU . . . .

This does have a peculiar feature though . . . if all switches are in the bottom position (series/send) the circuit does not send ANY signal to output. In addition, if a switch is in the bottom position and the NEXT switch in the chain is in the top (off) position there won't be any signal from EITHER PU (i.e. neck switch @ bottom & middle switch @ top = both PU dead so there would ONLY be a signal if the bridge switch is in the middle position and that signal will be bridge PU only . . .as soon as you switch the middle switch to the middle position though you have neck & middle in series with the bridge parallel to that; and if you keep moving it and end with the middle switch in the bottom position you will have all 3 PU in series.
When thinking about any advice given always ask yourself "why would (s)he know more than I do".

User avatar
mbene085
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2869
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by mbene085 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:08 pm

First off, thank you so much for working on that switching scheme.

But I think I should clarify something - I am only looking to combine the separate pickups (neck/middle/bridge) in parallel, like a bass VI, for example, or a 3-pickup jaguar. I want to do this with G&L Z-coils which individually can be wired in series or parallel since they have two coils (most models have them hardwired in series, but there is at least one model that hardwires them in parallel).

My hope was to combine pickup on/off (with each one being in parallel) with a series/parallel function for the two coils of each individual pickup. I realize I could just do three DPDTs for series/parallel and then use a 3-way pickup selector toggle...but thought this switching arrangement would be cooler.

User avatar
hpr_hpr
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:48 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by hpr_hpr » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:50 pm

Ah
I thought I understood and then got ‘sidetracked’ into the interesting problem ... and now I want a 3 PU guitar to try this on ...

Anyway back to the original problem I misunderstood ...

Yes it’s definitively possible to make these switches series/parallel/off for the situation you describe ... as evidenced by the schematic you showed. So we just have to move some connections around to get what you want.

Imagine the connections as 2 vertical rows of 4. (as in the schematic you showed) and number from the top right clockwise 1 through 8 (so 5 is bottom left).

Ok here goes, you need 1 switch for each PU, top is series, middle is parallel, bottom is off.
Coil1 start to GND
Coil1 end to 7
Coil2 start to 2
Coil2 end to OUT
GND to 3
OUT to 6
connect 8 & 1 (the two top terminals)
Terminals 4 & 5 aren’t connected to anything.

As you have probably gathered OUT carries the signal from the PU in the selected configuration.

Anyway I’m Not sure you’ll get much of a timbre difference between series and parallel as the pickups sense (mostly) different strings to begin with. I have a couple of pRails I can switch between S and P and the difference is ... subtle ... you have to have a clean tone and listen carefully to hear it.
I have to agree with shadoweclips’ suggestion above, it may be more useful (and way cooler) if you split the coils so you can have individual selections for bass and treble strings (bridge only for bass strings and neck for treble strings for instance) ... kinda like a instrument split on a synthesizer I would think
When thinking about any advice given always ask yourself "why would (s)he know more than I do".

User avatar
hpr_hpr
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:48 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by hpr_hpr » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:39 pm

@ shadoweclipse

Apologies for stepping on your thread ... got into a question that I thought was quite interesting ... ... ... and then it turned out not even to be the question ...
When thinking about any advice given always ask yourself "why would (s)he know more than I do".

User avatar
mbene085
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2869
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by mbene085 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:51 pm

Funny you should mention that. I actually have a jaguar with Novak Electric XII pickups in it, wired as you describe - each of the two pickups is wired to a 3-way for bass coil/series/treble coil, so I can mix the bass coil of one pickup and the treble coil of the other.

The only problem is that, as far as I can tell, the pickups seem to be sensing a small amount of the other strings, so when I combine two halves of two different pickups in parallel (the way it's wired now), the signal ends up sounding weaker and thinner than it sounds if I even just use a single coil on its own. It's like it's splitting the difference between the coil with a normal tone and the one that's barely picking up those strings. I've checked and they're not out of phase...they're just interacting weirdly. I'm going to try rewiring it so I can combine those halves in series instead, which might work better.

I've wired a p-bass pickup for series-parallel and it did have a different tone in each mode, so I figured the Z-coils might be the same.

Then again, G&L did this on their Studio VI guitar, and it seemed to work, so maybe the XII pickups have a different magnetic field or something?

Image

The only trick is that the Studio VI doesn't have an option for wiring the coils in series. The "both on" mode is in parallel, and these guitars are known to sound thinner/spankier than standard Comanches (which are wired in series).

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 6720
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:16 am

hpr_hpr wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:39 pm
@ shadoweclipse

Apologies for stepping on your thread ... got into a question that I thought was quite interesting ... ... ... and then it turned out not even to be the question ...
Any time man!! I've got like 3 or 4 other schematics to work on this weekend, so one less is always helpful. I was a bit stumped at that one at first, so I'm glad you jumped in if you knew the answer ;D
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
hpr_hpr
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:48 am

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by hpr_hpr » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:27 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:51 pm
The only problem is that, as far as I can tell, the pickups seem to be sensing a small amount of the other strings, so when I combine two halves of two different pickups in parallel (the way it's wired now), the signal ends up sounding weaker and thinner than it sounds if I even just use a single coil on its own. It's like it's splitting the difference between the coil with a normal tone and the one that's barely picking up those strings. I've checked and they're not out of phase...they're just interacting weirdly. I'm going to try rewiring it so I can combine those halves in series instead, which might work better.
Hmm . . .

Hand waving starts . . . .

Physics says that you can't avoid picking up at least some signal from the strings that are not over that coil . . . electromagnetic forces don't just 'stop' but propagate with a strength inverse to the cube of the distance . . . or was that the square ... no the cube I think. The signal sounding weaker is kinda puzzling, it should be somewhat weaker but only the frequencies where the string is moving in opposite directions over the selected 2 pickups should have any cancellation and with the space between them you could actually work out which frequencies that would be (the fundamental would be the distance between the pickups and it would be the even harmonics I think). If I remember correctly pickups in series, have a higher DC resistance but a louder signal than parallel so the difference in signal (which may be linear) may be less noticeable with the coils in series as it goes down from a higher level to begin with and your ears are 'programmed' to hear 'loudness' on a (more or less) logarithmic scale thus the same absolute difference is less noticeable to us at louder volumes.
When thinking about any advice given always ask yourself "why would (s)he know more than I do".

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 6720
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Shadoweclipse13's Master Schematic Page!

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:34 am

Finally got off my lazy, unmotivated, dickhead ass and did some schematics I've been putting off for awhile. Yeah, I've been busy, but mostly I've just been lazy. Sorry guys.

Morrigaen's Jaguarillo-Mustang hybrid is finished, and I PM'ed you.

I also finished my final Strazz wiring schematic, mostly inspired to not use concentric pots, and keep that thing simple. Might change my mind again, but who knows. I was originally thinking about wiring it like a Nashville Tele with the middle pickup on its own volume straight to the output jack, but that would require the concentrics which I'm not fond of for this project at the moment.

Dylanafghjkl, I haven't forgotten about you either, and am working on your issue at the moment!

Thanks for everyone's patience with these. Been a rough few months (not an excuse, but true), but I think things are about to get a little better for me.

For the record this was me this last year
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

Post Reply