gauge 9 on jazzmaster

For help with setups and other technical issues.
User avatar
vtpcnk
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:42 am

gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by vtpcnk » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:50 pm

I play gauge 9 on all my guitars. I bend/vibrato a lot and so find it easier with gauge 9.

but I think it is a common view that jazzmaster and gauge 9 don't work well.

what exactly is the reason that gauge 9 is not favoured for a jm?

the jm bridge design? the bridge break angle?

if either of the above is true will a tune-o-matic bridge substitute or buzzstop make using gauge 9 feasible on a jm?

any other reasons/solutions?

appreciate the insights.

User avatar
jorri
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3036
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 1:53 am
Location: bath, UK
Contact:

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by jorri » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:03 pm

reason 1 is that there's more flexibility on a jazzmaster, 10s might feel like 9s do on a strat. This is because of the break angle...

the main reason is the bridge which needs more downward pressure to stop buzz and things moving around...

Increasing the break angle, the most obvious way is a buzz stop...but then you've bought a guitar that's liked because of the low break angle and bridge contributing to the sound, just a suggestion that one of the versions with a different bridge might work better, there's obviously the pickups and tremolo and many other great things that are still part of the jazzmaster sound too.

There are other bridges like a staytrem that don't require as much modifications that will help. prepare for a slightly frustrating set-up period though, i know i got that when i was using 12s still needing more tension/break angle by shimming the neck, modding the bridge etc....

User avatar
shoule79
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1963
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:57 am
Location: London....the one in Canada

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by shoule79 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:37 pm

9's are fine. I had them on my MIJ JM for about 10 years before I was told that it was 'wrong'. I still only use 10's on mine (with low action), and that's only because I moved all my Fender guitars up a size to 10's (i'm a bender). I'd go back to them in a heartbeat if I felt that my 10's were affecting my guitars play-ability.

If your guitar doesn't like the 9's (buzzes), shim the neck to give the bridge more break angle and you are good to go. In conjunction with a decent setup from a pro, that's all you have to do. Note, most JM's/Jags tend to have terrible setups in stores in my opinion. I played a Johnny Marr jag (an $1800 guitar) in a store last year and the action felt like it was a 1/4 off the fretboard, and I don't even look at the Squires in most stores.

A mustang bridge may also be helpful if you find that the strings move around in the standard bridges saddles, and they are really cheap. A tune o matic alone won't help because they don't improve the break angle, and likely they won't be set to the correct radius or your neck. Staytrem and Mastery are nice, but not necessary. Avoid a buzz stop. It may take out some buzz, but you lose the extra length behind the bridge and the overtones that it creates.

User avatar
somebodyelseuk
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:45 pm

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by somebodyelseuk » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:02 am

String tension is less, naturally, which in turn means less downward pressure on the bridge. This usually leads to the well documented buzzing, rattling and screws unwinding themselves at the bridge. With heavy strings - 12s or 13s - that were commonly used when the guitars were designed, there's enough pressure to reduce these issues. With lighter strings, you either put up with it and do a setup every couple of weeks or you replace the bridge and/or shim the neck - the break angle increases the downward pressure on the bridge.
In my experience, the key to getting the best out of JM/Jags is this pressure on the bridge. I've done the Mustang bridge/shim the neck/heavier strings (11s) and my JM & Jag really sing now. I think it's worth adapting to heavier strings for the better sustain, tone and volume I get from the increased downward pressure. I went from 10s to 11s, which admittedly is less of a change, but it doesn't take long to adapt to the heavier strings and it doesn't hamper my playing 'style'.
I highly recommend going up a gauge or two and also don't have the pickups too close to the strings.

Of course, this is all on vintage style JM/Jag. If you're playing one with a tunomatic bridge, then those issues won't be there and there's no reason to fret about string gauge.

User avatar
vtpcnk
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:42 am

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by vtpcnk » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:14 pm

hey all, thanks so much for the insights.

is there a drop in tune-o-matic for a jm - where I do not have to make any mods on the body?

and is the staytrem not a floating bridge?

thanks.

User avatar
shoule79
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1963
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:57 am
Location: London....the one in Canada

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by shoule79 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:12 pm

I'm pretty sure there aren't any drop in TOM bridges, but could be wrong.

Depending on the JM you go with, you may not want one. A TOM on a vintage style neck would probably result in a low and high e being very high off the fretboard.

User avatar
Mickster
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:29 am

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by Mickster » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:34 am

vtpcnk wrote:hey all, thanks so much for the insights.

is there a drop in tune-o-matic for a jm - where I do not have to make any mods on the body?

and is the staytrem not a floating bridge?

thanks.
No, the Staytrem IS a floating bridge. And you got what the replies above were saying, right? That the tune-o-matic probably isn't what you're looking for, yes? Just checking you understood what they were telling you...

User avatar
adamrobertt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2408
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by adamrobertt » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:50 pm

I'll add another shim the neck, slap on a Mustang bridge, and use heavier strings. JM's just really seem to play the best this way. I've never tried 9s on a JM though and I'm not saying it's impossible to get one to play nicely with light strings, but it will probably be a lot more challenging and may result in some compromises having to be made.

User avatar
Spoike
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 5:27 am

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by Spoike » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:15 pm

You don't want a TOM bridge - having a mismatched radius is not fun. Ever.

I can't recommend the mustang bridge enough, it is the solution to all your troubles. At least, it was in my case. I use 11s, and I've thought about switching to 12s or 13s many times in the past, but even with that mustang bridge I still occasionally suffer from the low E string popping out of the notch in it's saddle - probably because the notches are all equal size on the stock mustang bridge, which isn't quite enough to accommodate the thicker e string. However, if you're only using 9s, I assume that would be a non-issue for you. I'm thinking about getting a staytrem bridge myself, but they are pricey. For most purposes, the mustang bridge is more than sufficient, as well as being significantly cheaper.

One other thing, you should setup your guitar the way that suits you. Most JM/Jag players are going to recommend you get 11s and won't bend on that (no pun intended). If you want to use 9s, go for it - your string tension might suffer for it, but it's more important that you have a guitar which works for you.

User avatar
Mad-Mike
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1619
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:04 pm
Location: Somewhere
Contact:

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by Mad-Mike » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:56 pm

As a user of a Jazzmaster with 009's and (mostly) stock bridge setup, I'll chime in and say it does work, but it's not for everyone. One reason my Jazzy works so well with 009s is because I put stronger springs on the low and high E bridge saddles (stock bridge) to lock the others in and that has reduced buzz and increased sustain, I also don't use a neck shim and have the bridge set super low on that guitar, plus my low E saddle is angled to wedge the low E down a bit on down strokes of the pick.

Generally the 10's will tighten things up but I find that it's all a tradeoff regardless of what you use, the bigger the string, the less the grooves will hold the lower two or three strings in place strongly enough to make them stay on the saddle, another reason I use 009's (I play my Jazzmaster in ways most people play a Floyd Rosed Ibanez superstrat). The reason that's not a problem on the Mustang Bridge, and some original Vintage bridges is because the slots for the string are cut wider than they are on say, the VM Jazzmaster or Japanese reissues.

Lighter Strings = better grip by the saddle but with a a lower break over or less as tight bridge tolerances will case the strings to come out of the saddles
Heavier Strings = more string tension will hold it against the saddle, but thinner cut string slots will still allow the string to move if hit hard

Using lighter strings it's also imperative that you get the saddles for the higher strings EXACTLY level, otherwise buzzing does happen as the tension is pretty low. That's also why I cut up bridge humbucker springs to use as saddle springs on my Jag/Jazz style offsets, the higher tension makes up for the lack of breakover angle and paired with a level bridge saddle on the higher strings keeps the tone and reduces or eliminates the buzz.

User avatar
graywoods
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:11 am

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by graywoods » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:35 pm

I'm intrigued by the mods to yr bridge that you're describing, Mike, but I can't really picture it (maybe I'm too tired).

Would you be willing to post a pic or two?

User avatar
mekhem
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by mekhem » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:41 pm

1. Mustang (style) bridge
2. Neck shim
3. go to town.

A jazzmaster with nines will feel awfully 'slinky'. The design of the fender offsets makes strings a "gauge down".


AOM/TOM bridges are evil on vintage radius necks

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:56 pm

You can use the Jazzmaster with any gauge string, the only factor will be if you need a shim or not. You could use the stock bridge, with all its design flaws, if you use enough of a shim. A high enough shim will allow for the lighter strings to still put enough pressure on the individual saddles that they won't move much under normal play, and voila! You can use your 9s.

A much better solution would be to use something like a StayTrem bridge which will not move under any circumstances significantly no matter the string gauge or the shim, although I'll still suggest a light shim would be best in most cases.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
marcello252
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:41 am
Location: Milan - Italy

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by marcello252 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:53 am

I'm a serial bender too, I have to say with JM and Jag it's easier to get comfortable with heavier strings, I think you can easily adapt to 10s in a couple of weeks

User avatar
fuzzking
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10319
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:06 am
Contact:

Re: gauge 9 on jazzmaster

Post by fuzzking » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:13 am

Friend of mine plays 9s on his standard JM. No mods whatsoever, not even shimmed. But then he has a very light touch, uses real soft picks and doesn't seem to apply an pressure at all with his chording hand. Each time I pick up this particular guitar, bending is hilariously easy and everything sounds out of pitch. But the guy has no prob with 9s whatsoever.
Nobody exists on purpose.

Post Reply