Squier VM Jaguar tuning stability

[tjdracz]

I've got quite a big problem with my VM Jag tuning stability. Every trem dive, save for the most subtle one makes all strings go flat. To put them back need to either retune or pull the arm up, but the latter sometimes Ituninginsteadto go sharp instead!
I'm running 12-52 strings, nut is cut and lubricated, bridge seems to sit right in the centre of thimbles. It just seems that it sucks big time with returning to zero position.
Anyone run into similar issues? Any tips to keep it more stable? Or is the squier bridge just crap? Got guitar for £70 so not quite keen on getting something like staytrem or mastery as it seems plain stupid

[Larry Mal]

Yeah, but you can just get a Mustang bridge and see if that adds some stability, which it probably will. That'll be about $25.

Your problem will more than likely be the nut or the bridge, the quality of both is probably pretty low. I know those bridges are shit, and the nut is probably set up in a pretty rudimentary way. I'd bet the nut will still work, though, if it was me, I'd get a Mustang bridge on there- a real Fender one_ and that'll likely take care of business.

[tjdracz]

Not sure about the mustang bridge and radius difference though, 7.25 against 9.5. Is mustang fit more snuggly in the thimbles?
I was thinking maybe just to push bridge back fully but I quite like trem up ability

[gutter rock]

Regardless of what bridge you use, I would recommend putting electrical tape around the bridge posts so that it fits snug in the thimbles. I know it is supposed to be part of the whole floating bridge design, but too many time it doesn't return to the proper position after trem use. Makes the whole thing much more stable this way. In fact the Mastery bridge is designed to fit snug in the thimbles for this reason.

[tjdracz]

Regardless of what bridge you use, I would recommend putting electrical tape around the bridge posts so that it fits snug in the thimbles. I know it is supposed to be part of the whole floating bridge design, but too many time it doesn't return to the proper position after trem use. Makes the whole thing much more stable this way. In fact the Mastery bridge is designed to fit snug in the thimbles for this reason.

Stable but kinda defeats the point when it's designed for rocking, doesn't it?

Is there any point of replacing stock one with AVRI reissue bridge? Any considerable differences there?

[duceditor]

I agree that the most common cause of this problem is the nut. Since you are using heavier strings than the instrument came with the nut was either adjusted to compensate or should have been. The question thus reasonably comes up: How well was that done?

We hear the chorus that the nut and bridge are poor quality. Owning two VM offsets myself, and knowing many other guitarists who own them, such a generalization strikes me as unknowing at best. My JM accepted .11s w/o adjustment - just a bit of nut lube but my Jag with .12s required some. Both are super stable -- often going from one playing session to the next without significant detuning once they have warmed up.

The bridges have the typical original JM design issues, but are no more problematical in my experience and that of many knowledgeable and experienced friends than those on classic year Fenders. It is worth noting that all the "fixes" commonly suggested for Squier VMs were devised to deal with Fender bridges, not the Squiers which have basically the same design and construction. (Yes, and that includes replacing them with the fabled Mastery bridges)

The rocking feature on both my instruments works flawlessly. The ideas of messing with it is to me illogical, but others have done so with satisfaction.

Another area worth checking is the trem unit itself. Can you 'floor' it without clicks? Here is one area where the Squier (and, likely, Chinese-made Fenders) give evidence of 'cheapened' construction. I mean not the lack of the lock, but the non-conical base which is used to compress the spring. Both my guitar when new clicked on deep dives. This went away for a time with a quick, light, mist of WD40 sprayed into the collet with the arm removed. It was permanently remedied with a drop of heavy oil placed there (and another on the fulcrum point for good measure) with the trem plate removed from the instruments.

My expectation is that wear alone would have, and eventually still will, make the oil unnecessary, But in any case that did eliminate the issue.

11s and 12s, a properly grooved nut, careful set up followed by LocTite blue =s perfection (or as close to it as this daily, long-term, player will ever need to see).

-don

[tjdracz]

I agree that the most common cause of this problem is the nut. Since you are using heavier strings than the instrument came with the nut was either adjusted to compensate or should have been. The question thus reasonably comes up: How well was that done?

We hear the chorus that the nut and bridge are poor quality. Owning two VM offsets myself, and knowing many other guitarists who own them, such a generalization strikes me as unknowing at best. My JM accepted .11s w/o adjustment - just a bit of nut lube but my Jag with .12s required some. Both are super stable -- often going from one playing session to the next without significant detuning once they have warmed up.

The bridges have the typical original JM design issues, but are no more problematical in my experience and that of many knowledgeable and experienced friends than those on classic year Fenders. It is worth noting that all the "fixes" commonly suggested for Squier VMs were devised to deal with Fender bridges, not the Squiers which have basically the same design and construction. (Yes, and that includes replacing them with the fabled Mastery bridges)

The rocking feature on both my instruments works flawlessly. The ideas of messing with it is to me illogical, but others have done so with satisfaction.

Another area worth checking is the trem unit itself. Can you 'floor' it without clicks? Here is one area where the Squier (and, likely, Chinese-made Fenders) give evidence of 'cheapened' construction. I mean not the lack of the lock, but the non-conical base which is used to compress the spring. Both my guitar when new clicked on deep dives. This went away for a time with a quick, light, mist of WD40 sprayed into the collet with the arm removed. It was permanently remedied with a drop of heavy oil placed there (and another on the fulcrum point for good measure) with the trem plate removed from the instruments.

My expectation is that wear alone would have, and eventually still will, make the oil unnecessary, But in any case that did eliminate the issue.

11s and 12s, a properly grooved nut, careful set up followed by LocTite blue =s perfection (or as close to it as this daily, long-term, player will ever need to see).

-don

Nuthas been set up in guitar shop, looks fine and I put some graphite there to help it.
No clicks or anything like that with tremolo, all seems fine.
It just seems that bridge doesn't return to the middle. I've got intonation spot on but anything more than subtle warble throws it down the drain and strings go flat. Instead of retuning, arm swing up seems to be best way to return it to pitch, this way at least I've got my intonation back.

Can you guys simply do the big tremolo dip, say halfway between equilibrium and pickguard, release the arm and return in to pitch?

Only way I can kinda make it work is to dip the arm and pull it up on return, only then releasing it. But my understanding is that it's not supposed be quite like that

[duceditor]

Can you guys simply do the big tremolo dip, say halfway between equilibrium and pickguard, release the arm and return in to pitch?

Only way I can kinda make it work is to dip the arm and pull it up on return, only then releasing it. But my understanding is that it's not supposed be quite like that

Absolutely. I play mostly Ventures and surf so both warbles and dips are constant.

The offset trem doesn't dive down as low in pitch as, say, a Strat, but it is smooth, consistent, and returns perfectly on both my VMs. (Jag and JM) The centering of the bridge has not been a problem. Your instruments problems are unusual. Wish I could provide you with an answer!

Perhaps you should remove the trem unit and watch it operate out of the guitar. Could something be binding? And try a drop of oil on the fulcrum and on the spring.

-don

[andy_tchp]

Sounds like the trem assembly may be binding on the cavity.

There's not a lot of clearance for the trem to operate, even when everything is perfectly assembled.

Getting the mounting of the tremolo even slightly 'off' could cause it to bind. I'd be pulling it off and having a quick look, it's only 6 screws (be careful not to over-tighten when you're doing them back up).

Actually! Before doing that I'd slacken the strings completely and see if the trem operates properly or still 'sticks'. If it's sticking with no string tension applied, you'll know with almost certainty that the trem mechanism itself is binding somewhere.

[soggy mittens]

For those talking shit about fender designs etc I just have to say, consider this.. do you really think such a well established guitar maker would manufacture and sell a guitar with parts that make the whole thing inoperable? The simple straight forward answer is a big fat NO. So what that leaves is quite simply.. human error at the buyers end.

It has been said a million times that these guitars do require a good decent set up to play at their best. Replacing parts is to me what ignorant people do, people that don't like to think or challenge their own minds. To try and learn about what they're dealing with but instead take what they see as an easy way "this doesn't work out the box it must be broke, consumer mode activated: must BUY new item".. >_>

The vintage bridge is not poorly designed or "bad" in anyway, if you can't set up your guitar properly to make it work then just admit that and look for solutions not replacement parts, at the very least try to work with what you have.

Sorry but people bashing on the vintage bridge really irks me, obviously? I don't like people writing/spreading BS stuff about them. so there.

Ok yes tuning stability with these guitars is always going to be an issue, you can try a number of things, like it has been pointed out setting up the nut to have wider slots and to oil them up for more free movement without any string-grabbing. You will no doubt feel the strings move under your fingers right so it is obvious they move and you want them to be able to move freely from point A to point B-Z. The strings rub, you want free movement, you make it possible!
The bridge posts are meant to pivot with the strings staying in the same place on the bridge, if you tape the posts then the strings are going to rub and metal on metal ain't going to do your strings much good over time. Most people that tape their posts don't use their trem at all. So I don't see it as any form of solution here.

Also after address the nut when you tune up tune up with the arm in use, tune, move the arm down as far as you would normally move it, retune and repeat three or four times until it is set. It's just the nature of these guitars, you will have to check your tuning after each song you play.

[andy_tchp]

Yep ^, ex-Mastery bridge user (4 years) here, I prefer the function and more importantly sound of the stock bridge, left to rock back and forth as designed. Judicious application of Loc-tite (noting I required this on both of my Mastery bridges too) means no buzzing or fastener loosening issues.

Oh, and no tuning issues whatsoever. Don't think I tune between every song, only if I've really wailed on the trem self-indulgently during a song, which only happens all the time .

[gutter rock]

I beg to differ. I have used either a mastery bridge or a mustang bridge with taped posts on all my offsets for over a decade and use my trem a ton. My first jag was a vintage jag that I played in stock bridge form for years. Once I got a mastery bridge I was sold on the more solid tight in the thimbles idea. My guitars stay nearly in perfect tune once the strings are broke in for weeks. I play a whole set at a gig with no fear of tuning issues. Not saying the original design can't be set up to perform nearly as good, but IMO there is better options out there. Fender actually CAN do wrong sometimes, not all of their designs are perfection. If you can make the vintage design work for you, then by all means use it. I will continue being happy with more modern solutions and a complete lack of tuning issues, string skipping, buzzes, and action changing due to saddles lowering etc. Yes, most of these can be corrected with the original bridge, but I try my best to eliminate any chance of problems that could arise. I get nervous enough playing shows without worrying about bridge or tuning issues!

[tjdracz]

Also after address the nut when you tune up tune up with the arm in use, tune, move the arm down as far as you would normally move it, retune and repeat three or four times until it is set. It's just the nature of these guitars, you will have to check your tuning after each song you play.

Will try that again tonight, but if I remember correctly, that's what I was doing before but given up when the strings where still going flat afterwards and just resigned myself to correct tuning with trem arm up movement.

Trem assembly seems fine, I will take it off tonight and see what happens. If it's still no joy, I will just admit defeat and take it to the local shop where there is a guy who knows a thing or two about Jags/Jazzmasters

[duceditor]

Trem assembly seems fine, I will take it off tonight and see what happens. If it's still no joy, I will just admit defeat and take it to the local shop where there is a guy who knows a thing or two about Jags/Jazzmasters

Do, please, share what you learn. You seem to be doing every thoroughly and I can only imagine the frustration.
Whatever the problem/solution proves to be (and there HAS to be one!), we should add it to our group knowledge.



-don

[tjdracz]

Okay, problems finally solved. It was combination of nut problem (cut by professional my ass...) and tremolo screw which needed some tweaks and finding that sweet spot with tension. Now it holds tune as good as any jag.

Lesson learned: when somebody tells you that guitar was fully setup by professional, never believe that. The nut was indeed cut but in veeeery dodgy way. Might have been sandpaper on a string or some other cringeworthy method