Difference between american, japan, and classic player trems

[unreal77]

Sorry this been probably asked a million times before...

I was browsing through the Darren Riley inventory. Prices vary obviously, BUT the real differences?

Thanks bros.

[caliban]

Screw in collet on the Mexican, push in on the Japanese and the American. Smaller string spacing on the Japanese (don't know on the Mexican), but larger string spacing on the American one. Interesting topic as a means of putting together information about this issue.

[shoule79]

No experience with the Mexican, but between the Japanese and US trems I prefer the US for three reasons:

1) String spacing issue. I swear in my nit picky mind that they don't stay in tune as well because of this.

2) The E's rub on the screws on the trem plate, causing them to break easier

3) Stiffer action on the bar itself. I find I can vary the vibrato better on my AVRI because I don't have to dive bomb it to get anywhere.

Aside from that, I have never gotten the lock to work perfectly on my Japanese jags/jm, and the arm is always loose in the collett unless I adjust it or put tape on the arm. Upgrading my CIJ vibrato isn't a big deal for the benefit I would get from it, but if I were building I would be AVRI all the way.

[buckwalder]

The Vintage modified has a push in trem and no trem lock.

[buckwalder]

Sorry, you didn't ask about Vintage Modified, my bad.

[candy apple]

The actual metal on the USA ones is better quality. On the others there are rough edges and the metal is thinner too.

[slavemaster]

No experience with the Mexican, but between the Japanese and US trems I prefer the US for three reasons:

1) String spacing issue. I swear in my nit picky mind that they don't stay in tune as well because of this.

2) The E's rub on the screws on the trem plate, causing them to break easier

3) Stiffer action on the bar itself. I find I can vary the vibrato better on my AVRI because I don't have to dive bomb it to get anywhere.

Aside from that, I have never gotten the lock to work perfectly on my Japanese jags/jm, and the arm is always loose in the collett unless I adjust it or put tape on the arm. Upgrading my CIJ vibrato isn't a big deal for the benefit I would get from it, but if I were building I would be AVRI all the way.

I agree that the AVRI trems are of better quality, but I do not really agree with 1) and 2) up there. There are two possible scenarios - either those MIJ/CIJ guitars that exhibit those issues are an exception, or my CIJ that does not is an exception. Anyway, the high and low Es on my CIJ JM clear the screws for some 3mm at least, and the guitar stays in tune even after extended periods of trem abuse.

For 3) you are perfectly right. I had tried a couple of AVRIs and the trem action feels way smoother and better in general. I believe it's due to the better spring. The arm on the CIJ is loose, but if you take it out a lot I think the AVRI one will be no better.

However, as I mentioned up there, maybe I just got lucky. To the OP, if you have a choice - definitely pick the AVRI, all in all it is a better unit.

[unreal77]

Thanks guys!

Financial problems are leading me to upgrade my VM Jag to the fullest so it becomes my main axe.

So a new trem. I got tusq saddles and they work for me, even though I've read about some peeps not liking them.

[duceditor]

The trems on both my VM Offsets -- a Jag and a JM -- work flawlessly. The guitars hold tune beautifully, even from one session to the next and I have no clearance issues at all. (Yes, they were set up with care) But initially each had a rough spot -- almost a "click" if the trem bar was pushed lower than I would ever do with my style of playing.

That did bother me, however, as I was concerned that it might be demonstrating poor machining of the pivot point.

Twas not the case -- the click was coming from binding of the spring and was thus remedies with the very slightest spritz of WD40. I put the guitar in a vertical position (on a stand will do), inserted the red tube in the opening around the bar collet, and gave the briefest spritz I could. Thats it. The binding has never returned.

The trem bars, btw, go in with a firm push. (Harder than one might expect -- and I think that I why some report their bar is loose and even "falls out.") Once in it rotates smoothly but has no tendency at all to come out or flop.

I 'grew up' using a Bigby bar. The floating trems on my offsets truly are the best of all worlds -- having the firm control I loved about the Bigsby, but having a wide two-way range of pitch control that surpasses it along with the sensitivity I admired on Strats.

Just love everything about these guitars -- especially the JM which to me is perfection itself.

-don

[shoule79]

No experience with the Mexican, but between the Japanese and US trems I prefer the US for three reasons:

1) String spacing issue. I swear in my nit picky mind that they don't stay in tune as well because of this.

2) The E's rub on the screws on the trem plate, causing them to break easier

3) Stiffer action on the bar itself. I find I can vary the vibrato better on my AVRI because I don't have to dive bomb it to get anywhere.

Aside from that, I have never gotten the lock to work perfectly on my Japanese jags/jm, and the arm is always loose in the collett unless I adjust it or put tape on the arm. Upgrading my CIJ vibrato isn't a big deal for the benefit I would get from it, but if I were building I would be AVRI all the way.

I agree that the AVRI trems are of better quality, but I do not really agree with 1) and 2) up there. There are two possible scenarios - either those MIJ/CIJ guitars that exhibit those issues are an exception, or my CIJ that does not is an exception. Anyway, the high and low Es on my CIJ JM clear the screws for some 3mm at least, and the guitar stays in tune even after extended periods of trem abuse.

For 3) you are perfectly right. I had tried a couple of AVRIs and the trem action feels way smoother and better in general. I believe it's due to the better spring. The arm on the CIJ is loose, but if you take it out a lot I think the AVRI one will be no better.

However, as I mentioned up there, maybe I just got lucky. To the OP, if you have a choice - definitely pick the AVRI, all in all it is a better unit.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure that #1 is in my head. My CIJ jag does stay in tune really well when I use the tremolo. Not as well as the trem on my AVRI JM, but still better than any non-locking strat i've ever played. My engineer brain makes me really wish that they would have just made a straight line though.

#2, it is probably to do with setup. I've read about it many times online, so I always assumed it to be a common problem. I worked around it by filing down the heads of the bolts. I do have really low action though, and the angles that creates from the bridge to the tailpiece probably contribute to the problem.