need some help.. I'm having trouble with my XII

[daydreamdelay]

when this arrived it was strung somewhat wrong.. I left it as is for a week until my set of flatwounds showed up, last night I put them on and did some adjustments as some strings were buzzing and one in particular (second B) wouldn't play at all. The neck was fairly straight already but I figured based on these issues and the bridge already seeming high enough I'd give the neck some relief and add a shim. I gave the truss rod a quarter turn which came quite easy but so far neither has made any difference with this problem. I tried jacking the bridge way up to see how much of the buzz I could cut out and it made a good difference but there was still some buzzing here and there but with the action so high it played like shit so I backed it down. This is pretty much the extent of my limited set up ability.. I'm wondering (aside from the real possibility I've got this all wrong) if the nut is too low or there's some other issue causing this problem. Right now the bridge is where it was when the guitar arrived and while the neck still seems straight now with slight relief it's completely unplayable

not sure what to do next.. any advice?

[mezcalhead]

How are the frets? If they're very worn that might be part of the problem.

[daydreamdelay]

well they don't seem to be too bad, there's no denting or unevenness that I can see but I'm not sure that they're not too low. I'm getting buzzing all over the neck whether the strings are open or fretted so it seems it could definitely be the frets and/or the nut

I talked to Jay and Tremolite a bit last night and I think the consensus is to have it professionally set up, possibly a fret level and new or shimmed nut depending on what the luthier says so it's in good shape for me from here out.. I can do small adjustments here and there but this is definitely beyond my limited experience

[jetset]

You can tell if the nut is too low by putting a capo on the first fret - if the buzzing and fret noise goes away then it is your nut.  12 strings also need a bit more truss rod tension that 6-strings (twice the string tension).  If you look down the fretboard is the it perfectly straight (OK), slightly concave (ok) or slightly convex (backbowed - not OK.)  Truss rod adjusting should probably be best left to a pro if you're unsure - the last thing you want is a snapped truss rod or strpped nut.
-J

[daydreamdelay]

the buzzing is still there either way.. and in the case of a few strings there isn't even buzzing, it's like plucking a harmonic 

I've been talking to the GC down there and the one here and it looks like they're going to let me take it to the shop of my choice and cover a set up and hopefully anything else it might turn up.. frets, nut, whatever. I think this one e tuner is bad too 

[daydreamdelay]

just took it into see my luthier.. good god this thing is somewhat f*&$ed! 

here's the list..

set up
fret level and dress
pull last five frets and plain board 
cut new bone nut - he wants to widen the space between strings, he says they're not supposed to be as close as they are but it appears the nut is original.. I don't know how I feel about this 
rearrange saddles - some genious moved them around so they're staggerd rather than following the radius

so it's going to be at least $200 including new flatwounds and GC said no problem so I'm very happy they're standing behind it.. problem is he doesn't trust them so won't work on it until he receives the check, plus he sent me home with it and said not to return with it until it has a case, I should've kept the damn gigbag! 

[Jay]

If you want I'll take a closeup pic of my nut and you can compare.  The strings are a bit close together with some room at the highs and lows.  I guess it's ultimately a tossup for playability vs. originality.  A new nut might help it out a bit.

[daydreamdelay]

thanks Jay.. I've got a few pics to go on so I should be ok, I do appreciate the offer though

I know the reason he wants to do it and as much as I want to keep it original it does have to play well to be worth me keeping. the thing I liked about this though compared to other 12's I've played is the strings are so close together each set feels like one string. I hope that doesn't change as it makes playing much easier.. I'll have to talk to him more about it

[i love sharin foo]

I wonder how the heel warped like that. In Dan Erlewine's book, he mentions thinking that narrow shims might help cause that. It's hard to tell though. I mean look at how many Jazzmasters and Jaguars are fine with the stock shims. It might be possible to have him plane the board and get it straightened out and keep the stock nut for now. Having that taken care might make it play clean enough and feel good enough that it isn't necessary. No sense doing more than you have to, provided that it plays as well as you like. Hopefully it will all get straightened out soon 

Justin

[fullerplast]

If you want I'll take a closeup pic of my nut

No thanks.

[daydreamdelay]

hahaha I shockingly never caught that.. shows where your mind is today Doug 

[daydreamdelay]

I wonder how the heel warped like that. In Dan Erlewine's book, he mentions thinking that narrow shims might help cause that. It's hard to tell though. I mean look at how many Jazzmasters and Jaguars are fine with the stock shims. It might be possible to have him plane the board and get it straightened out and keep the stock nut for now. Having that taken care might make it play clean enough and feel good enough that it isn't necessary. No sense doing more than you have to, provided that it plays as well as you like. Hopefully it will all get straightened out soon 

Justin

I completely agree.. I'm going to discuss it with him and see if we can find a good middle ground

[i love sharin foo]

Hopefully he'll go for it. There isn't any harm done in taking one step at a time anyway. If anything, it should be a damn fine player it is all said and done.

Also, since you have the guitar with you now, have you rearranged the saddles or anything? That might make a little difference now. I've been amazed at some of the setups on JMs and Jags that I've bought. I bought my red '62 from Voltage about 5 years ago and when it came ir had no less than SIX strings RESTING ON THE FRETS!! It was completely unplayable. And the radius on the bridge looked like a sine wave    I haven't dealth with them since, nor will I ever again    (not just due to the setup alone.. there were other "problems" with the transaction as well, but that's a story for another day)

Justin

[fullerplast]

hahaha I shockingly never caught that.. shows where your mind is today Doug 

Real mature of me, eh?  I was having a Jr High flashback...

[daydreamdelay]

Hopefully he'll go for it. There isn't any harm done in taking one step at a time anyway. If anything, it should be a damn fine player it is all said and done.

Also, since you have the guitar with you now, have you rearranged the saddles or anything? That might make a little difference now. I've been amazed at some of the setups on JMs and Jags that I've bought. I bought my red '62 from Voltage about 5 years ago and when it came ir had no less than SIX strings RESTING ON THE FRETS!! It was completely unplayable. And the radius on the bridge looked like a sine wave    I haven't dealth with them since, nor will I ever again    (not just due to the setup alone.. there were other "problems" with the transaction as well, but that's a story for another day)

Justin

sine wave... ouch 

this is like a square wave.. not sure if that's much better. i'm not sure if i'll mess around with it at this point.. probably just leave it to him and ask him to go easy, he's getting paid for all the work so hopefully it's worthwhile in the playing department once i get it back.